Ed,


I have read this dialogue before, but this time I am getting emotional. The wife says I am a hard-nose, but Ed, this exchange between teacher and student is overwhelming. It is beautiful! This exchange has been answering questions for me left , right and centre. I don't know if you are aware of how much benefit you are to us - but big fella, what you are doing for us is down-right amazing. I could never have imagined, in all my dreams, that I would get to take part in such an adventure. I just can't say thank you enough Ed. Thank you very , very much my friend, for allowing me to be part of your extended family. Just amazing!
 
T.

Just found this interesting website that refers to a meeting with Robert Adams in Warner Park.

http://the-wanderling.com/meeting.html#N300

He mentions me too.

http://the-wanderling.com/awakened.html

It is hard to deny Robert's opinion that earth is the lowest of hells.

Nepal begins controversial animal sacrifice festival

Play SlideshowGallery

Thu Nov 26, 2:31 AM ET

Thu Nov 26, 2:31 AM ET

Master,

Last night a dream shook me.

I was visiting a very dark and crowded place in my dream this time. It smelled and had  very disturbing scenes.

I saw animals of all kinds ,dogs,parrots,donkeys,elephants,cats,cows,birds all tied together to be butchered Sir. Also there were men too who were tied for the same. They were to be used for food. All of them were crying and yelling and shouting. They were telling us how can you use me for food?

I was devastated.Totally moved. Even as I am writing to you I feel the pain of the animals and the men to be butchered. Many amongst us were buying and I could do nothing to stop them except be in deep pain and cry. I felt no difference between them and me even when I know it was all a dream. Consciousness took me there for a reason perhaps.

You see Edji previous to my samadhis  and oneness (since the two months ) which are now flowing continously  due to Your Grace, I was a Non-vegetarian. After the continuity of these samadhis I automatically reject non-veg food of any kind. I have lost total taste of them and felt vomiting once when I had chicken in between my samadhis.

I never believed in the past that consciousness had anything to do with food but now the rejection of non -veg and this dream makes me feel disgust of my past consumption.

I have no idea of the authenticity of hell or hades but I nearly felt I was visiting a really bad place. For me the purpose of this dream was to emphasize treating men and helpless animals alike. I do not know but it has rattled me to pieces and I am in pain even now.

Do you think Non-veg food should therefore be avoided at any cost in the early stages itself by a Sadhaka and not wait for the rude awakenings later in advanced stages of consciousness like in my case?

Response:

You understand now why I am so protective of animals? There is an extraordinary amount of pain and guilt in anyone who kills and eats animals. When you stop, good things happen almost immediately, and it feels like a weight is lifted from your conscience. Yes, being a vegetarian is important. Robert stressed it. He said sex was alright, but eating meat not only held you back, but created pain inside the person who ate meat. Yes, being a vegetarian is of immense importance, not least so to the animals.   

Rajiv: 

This is such an important lesson in my life you gave me Edji. You have saved me from hell. I realized later what good is all this consciousness if I can not feel the pain of animals. I never felt so low in my entire life. It was terrible, all that yelling and shouting. All animals were talking in language I could understand very well but I was so helpless. It has shook me completely. Perhaps it was needed but I pray no one goes through what I went.

One February Talk by Robert is now working again; click it: 


http://itisnotreal.com/RobertAudioFeb28-01.mp3

Download the Collected Works of Robert Adams, Volumes 1 & 2.
These contain all the transcripts from which the book Silence of the Heart was created through editing. It is a 1.4 megabyte download and consists of over 400 pages.


http://itisnotreal.com/Collected_Works_of_Robert_Adams_Vol_1.pdf

From S:

Soon after we last spoke I experienced unity consciousness for the first time. Now, as Rajiv describes, sometimes I am one with consciousness and sometimes I witness it. If I’m feeling like a body I can rather easily (most of the time) remind myself that I am not the body and I get back to association with consciousness, i.e. drop the body sense. Soon after experiencing oneness with consciousness, I burnt off the emotional/feeling aspects of bliss that I was experiencing since almost the beginning when you prescribed to me my practice, i.e. grabbing a hold of I am and sinking back into it.

Meanwhile, I have been seeing through consciousness periodically. Most of the times it feels like I’m tunneling through the center of consciousness and what’s seen through is purer than pure and transparent (in contrast to my otherwise typical experience of consciousness which is more ether-like and emotionally intoxicating). Soon after tunneling forward so to speak I started to try to bring my awareness to the background of consciousness (as you say to do in your writing). That ultimately lead to a “barreling” back through my gut and through the tunnel (in front) everything became silent-like, devoid, and rather detached from me. A few times I felt I stood apart from consciousness and watched it flow by.

A few days ago I went totally stupid feeling for a hour or so. I didn’t know anything. Here I’ll mention that my experience of consciousness will now and then fill up with complete knowingness. I was getting ready to email you to ask what I’m experiencing and what to do from here when I read your dialogs with Rajiv, where you described the causal body, and realized this is seemingly what I’m starting to experience. Naturally, I ask for your feedback and recommendation on what to do from here, other than continue as I am.

I have a very intense desire to go beyond consciousness to the absolute. I feel like I understand what the absolute is, or shall I say, what it is not. Intellectually I know it’s that which is beyond and no description is possible; I feel like sometimes I can associate with that. Am I simply deluding myself?

Always grateful,  

My Response:

You are not deluding yourself at all. It is a feeling, but without an
awake body being aware, it is not felt.  Yes, you can back into it.
Become the subject, and on the way, do Samadhi on consciousness as you are doing.

Yes, it appears you are aware now of the causal body. Becoming stupid is VERY, VERY important.

You are doing fine.  I am glad you have come this far so soon.


More from S:

I will do what you say. When you write me I ponder over it, over and over again until I feel I understand at the deepest level.

The thought has crossed my mind more than once that my OCD has helped me progress quickly on the path. My mind is very obsessive, and I have used that to obsess over self realization. Moreover, my OCD since childhood has to a certain extent not allowed me to enjoy life as others do; so since association with the mind/body has never been too pleasurable for me, it wasn't that hard to give it up.

I'm in meditation pretty much all waking hours. I'm always at it. In
addition to practice, I live a clean life. I'm 100% vegan. Beyond, I eat bland, no sugars, no salt, no spicy foods. Of course no kinds of drugs or alcohol. I do not watch any TV, occasionally part of a movie while sitting with my family. I cut out all reading of news. Only thing I read really is your website (over and over), Robert, and your blog. Lately I haven't had a desire to read much other than your website and blog. Anything and everything I can think of doing to quiet my mind, I do. 

Downloadable booklet on Self-Knowledge and Liberation for meditators and Yogis:

Ramana, Nisargadatta and Robert Adams, all advised continuous self-inquiry as a practice. Such meditation or self-abidance generates Dhyana power which walks hand in hand with self-understanding and liberation. This booklet contains the essence of the dialogues between Rajiv Kapur and I regarding his journey. 

http://itisnotreal.com/Self-Knowledge%20&%20Liberation-Dialogues.pdf

RAJIV:

Sir I feel the ways of the consciousness cannot be predicted. Sometimes she invites me to be a part of Her, which is oneness and sometimes I observe Her only as a witness. There is a clear subject (ME) and a clear object (consciousness) like today’s dhyaan.

I am very careful not to put effort in bringing about this oneness. A thought does come  but i am very watchful. Any such exercise of will would be "concentration" and not awareness of the Void. So any effort TO "BE" is actually NOT to "BE". It is still a kind of seeking, wanting to repeat an earlier experience.

EDJI Comment:

Don’t be afraid of making effort. A lot of homework is necessary before training becomes effortless. This is the fault of many teachers, requiring no effort. No homework, no effort, means no deepening. Instead they tell students they don’t exist and any effort creates a dichotomy that creates a barrier to becoming one with consciousness. Perhaps this will work if you are constantly in the presence of a self-realized being, but not if you are alone.

RAJIV:

The I-AM is the Samadhi state, the pure oneness state. It is in this beingness state that one is introduced to the blissful consciousness. This is the natural joyous state of one being empty of all identification except that of consciousness itself. I am the blissful consciousness.

 
"I am not Rajiv, not a son, not a father, not a disciple, not a dealer, not a yogi or a jnani, etc.” I am what i was before all this identification took place.

I bow at your feet again and again,

RAJIV:

Edji i feel the Master’s Grace all the time now. Yes Sir the Oneness remains most of the time now.

During waking stage:

Oneness remains like before. Heavy intoxication remains with 3D effects of objects most of the days. The objects seem closer to me than usual. Thoughts/emotions are unreal now. I find it "hard" to identify with them but i am learning to "act" in front of others just to remain "normal." It is like thoughts/emotions come, i watch and then i decide how to react. All happens quickly but automatically. The consciousness takes care of all that.

I am not practicing watching or being aware consciously, its just happening on its own Sir.

Nothing disturbs the intoxication or blissful awareness, i am watching a new movie show each day. :-)

I really wonder many times what the hell most people are doing, wasting their life over petty issues. They are missing the real fun. This is one thought i can say i usually identify with hahaha...

During Dhyaan:

I sit crossed legged but do nothing. I simply look at the void. An hour and half pass like a minute. The void sticks to my forehead seems closer than usual.

I am beginning to be aware of two states during my dhyaan.  One is waking state where i witness the void in front of me and also if any thought intrudes (this is automatic, no effort). In between suddenly i realize images coming from no where, few absurd and meaningless images and thoughts come to fore. I am in dream state. This is the calm dream state. I see it and as i watch it i am back to waking state.
So i now shuffling between dream and wakeful, wakeful and dream states.

Since i observe these states i am obviously not the void, not the wakeful state and not the dream state. So now i try and see what exactly am i? Only the void ahead of me can try and figure out the real "ME,” the witness.

But it is like a void ahead of me watching the void at the background.

But as i was watching from the void the attention towards the "ME" is felt at the heart center. The real ME may not exist as an object but is felt as another Void at the heart center. This is where usually the void melts into, meaning i get a sinking feeling like the void ahead sinks within the background void "ME" at the heart. Is it so Edji?

EDJI: This is all illusion. Don’t get lost in all this. Pay it little heed. Although this is fun, the understanding is only of appearances, not the unchanging real. Not of YOU.

In the end there is only one Void, but it has many aspects. Pay careful attention to the appearance and quality of each void, and whether any “feel” like the subject, the witness.

RAVIV:

In both the above there is only a void emptiness which is merging with another void emptiness. But WAIT, then i realized the background void cant be ME as i can witness the merging of the two voids. So where am i then??  Am i the one who is witnessing all this merging too??? IS IT SO?

EDJI:

Of course! Right now you are realizing this as an understanding, a concept. But a point will come when all states are seen as unreal and apart from you, and you are that witness—the subject.

RAJIV:

So is it that the void ahead and the void at the background which i considered ME is just ONE void and the real ME actually cannot be known or experienced or even pointed out. In that sense i dont exist. Is it so Master?

EDJI:

Yes and no. You are paying too much attention to conceptual understanding.

On one hand, I will say yes, it is so, and provide pointers toward the final understanding in terms of another conceptual context, which are a separate set of pointers:

The Void exists in mental space and contains all of consciousness, but is not you. This is a property of the subtle body.

Deeper is the causal body, which is a deeper Void; no experience here is possible. Only total not knowing.

You are beyond all that as the subject.

Your only knowledge of your deepest existence comes from awareness of that which is not you; i.e., consciousness, Void, the body and the world. You can only BE that deepest self.

But you have to pass through the causal body yet, and give up all
knowledge and knowing.

All that you are experiencing is unreal. It is mind and the play of consciousness. In the real Void, all this disappears. Your mind is playing tricks on you creating all these insubstantial entities and experiences. They are universal experiences, universal forms, yet they are only appearances.

Don't interpret yet about voids and all that; just witness the unfolding of consciousness. You need to get beyond trying to understand the unfolding of consciousness.

When all is said and done, when you complete your training, you are always aware of yourself as the subject, while the world is your emanation. You are aware of yourself as the subject, only because you are still experiencing the world and body. When the body goes, the Witness will have nothing to witness, and the Witness with appear to be no more.

The greatest mystery is that you are not consciousness and the world, but in another sense it is you, it emanates from you. These are two different understandings that are only apparent contradictions. These sentences are both true as appearances, but at different levels.

RAJIV:

"The void exists in mental space and contains all of consciousness, but is not you. This is a property of the subtle body"

Ok all of consciousness is subtle body and what i am witnessing at the moment are experiences of the subtle body.

"Deeper is the causal body, which is a deeper void; no experience here
is possible. Only total not knowing."

This is  beyond the subtle body and so beyond consciousness itself. So knowing and experiencing is not possible here. But Sir if i do not experience anything how will i know at all this is causal body? Is this similar to a deep sleep state where i can not recollect any experience?

"Your only knowledge of your deepest existence is awareness
of that which is not you; i.e., consciousness, Void, the body and
the world. You can only be that deepest state"

WOW, I am even beyond causal stage. Edji this looks like a long, long journey to me. Lot of learning and understanding is yet to come.
I know i stand apart from consciousness so i am not that, but to truly "know" the real subject, i will have to go beyond the void and even casual state. This looks like a lot need to be done.

"just witness the unfolding of consciousness. You need to get beyond trying to understand the unfolding of consciousness."

Master i do not want to sound like i am trying to seek reaching somewhere through using effort, but i am very keen to further enhance my understandings regarding the causal body and beyond it. Since long i am only at the consciousness level exploring astral or subtle experiences.

Edji who will lead me beyond and how?

Do i continue watching and witnessing the Void like i am doing at the moment? Is there anything more i can try to get beyond? Do i Put in more hours in dhyaan?

Please Sir your guidance is most needed.

I bow,

EDJI:

All that I am telling you is concepts, causal body, subtle, etc.

They correspond to different types of knowing or not knowing which are universal.

Right now you are in knowing oneness, but that is illusion. Still you
have you know it to go beyond it.

Next comes becoming totally stupid--letting go of knowing and
awareness. It often feels like death--and it is death to the I Am
consciousness. But you have to get used to being nothing. Now you are getting acquainted with the nothingness of the Void, but a deeper
nothingness means only darkness and not knowing.

You can feel what it is like--at least for me--by sitting in
Padmasana, and letting your consciousness leave your head and go
downward into your body into the belly. Focus your mind in your belly. Deep sleep is another similar state.

At some point, you should experience a "dropping" of your conscious center to the belly, and just before it drops, it will feel like your brain is becoming hard and dense as a rock and your awareness of luminous consciousness will disappear. You will pass through a state like sleep where there is nothing at all. There is no you there. No consciousness, no experience.

After your mind drops into your belly, you will instantly become one with everything. All the world will be no different from you. There will be no division between your body and the world. The body disappears and you are the world in total Samadhi. This is your “glimpse” state carried to the ultimate end.

That brief period when the mind is dropping, is the state of forgetfulness that you will need to repeatedly experience. The apparent you passes through it, from one state of knowing consciousness, to knowing nothing, and they perfect Samadhi with everything. You know it as a memory of passage.

This stage is very important. It must be lived in everyday life too: knowing nothing, not having an opinion or idea. It is one way the world you dwell in is destroyed and transcended.

You are having great fun now in consciousness and I don't want to stop it. Just know it is imaginational, not real. Neither is forgetfulness. No state or body is real. It is a function of you, but no more real than a dream.

By the way, anything said about dropping the center of consciousness to the belly, is also true about that center dropping to the heart. It is just that the Zen way I practiced emphasized the belly rather than the heart.

RAJIV:

WOW! You have revealed to me the greatest secret of what means "self-realization" or actual Liberation. Most know that it is unknowing state but you have even revealed How. I am speechless with awe Sir.
One will switch from knowing (consciousness) to unknowing (thru the navel) and vice versa through repeated such learnings and experiences. And then know we are beyond such knowing and unknowing too. TOO HARD TO GRASP YET.

EDJI comment:

Actually, knowing the causal body will happen on its own as the mental experiences are seen through. The belly technique just gives you a method to understand nothingness better and more quickly. It is not essential.

RAJIV:

I intellectually know this now yet i will want to reach this on my own.
You are 100% right Master that i am having lot of fun with Consciousness and still identify with Her. I shall continue to remain in that I-AMness. I shall Hold her tight to me as Maharaj says in Gita and let Her alone lead me there whenever the time comes.

I shall write as i get something new to tell.

I am most fortunate and blessed to know you Sir.

RAJIV:

So a Sadhaka now watches the arising and fall of all these 3 states in himself. And thus knows now that He is beyond them. Is this correct conception??

EDJI:

YOU are not a thing, but something is there. It is the subject, but it
does not exist like the universe exists.

The concepts of existence and non-existence apply to the visible, the observable. But YOU, the observer, the subject, are beyond all
qualities like existence and non-existence.

Don't try to figure this one out. You will understand when the time is ready.

RAJIV:

All this learning from you Sir is difficult to comprehend for me even intellectually. I am awestruck with the knowledge you have imparted to me today.

There is so little that i know. So little that those who write books on this subject know.  Most Gurus are only talking in terms of concepts and only on the surface whereas what you are pointing is beyond everything one can even possibly imagine.

I used to wonder why you have not made your presence felt across the Globe with so much. But i now realize that this world itself is too small for you. You must reveal to the world all this. Sir for those few maybe, or else they will only wander here and there like i used to.

EDJI:

Yes, these teachings are rare. They are directed towards yogis who have practiced meditation, or Zen students. Most who read this will have no comprehension at all. Nisargadatta learned all this from his teacher and tradition, but spends little time exploring these experiences and issues in his talks. But he must have thoroughly explored all this during the three years after initiation by his teacher. In fact, it is difficult to understand Prior to Consciousness and some of his other books unless you know these pointers.

But Nisargadatta’s teacher wrote on all this, as did Nisargadatta’s Dharma Brother, Ranjit. I think Maharaj knew it was better to bypass all this instruction, as essentially, in the end, it is found to be unreal and conceptual. These concepts are pointers from a different time, but they fit you and other yogis who are well aware of the vagaries of consciousness.

In the end, after all is said and done, you can only be yourself. In Zen this was called returning to the marketplace.

It rained one day when we were in Sedona, producing muted, pastel
colors. Other days were overcast, making the red rocks very red. The
high point for me is always Schnebbly Hill Road, where I've taken
hundreds of photos over the years, including a large elk about 6 years
ago, The lighting the last hour is always fantastic. The Indian seller
was taken on the way to Flagstaff.

http://picasaweb.google.com/edwardmuzika/Sedona2009#

The Sun City 4 Paws cattery is located in Peoria, AZ, a western suburb
of Phoenix next to Sun City and Glendale, all high retirement areas.
There are over 100 cats here, most not placeable due to disease,
health or behavioral problems. I showed up unannounced, and, as you
can see, it is in perfect order.

http://picasaweb.google.com/edwardmuzika/UntitledAlbum#

SENT TO ME:

Hi Ed.

My current practice has been "being conscious, of being". But I had been reading Seeds of Consciousness and a student asked Nisargadatta how to focus on the I am. Nisargadatta said focus on the I am means to be in the I am - be.

He said are you not conscious of being right now, student said yes. Master said did you have to focus on it, and student said no. Master said exactly, because you are the I am - attempting to focus on it activates the mind.

Now this got me to thinking, I have been focusing on the feeling of I am - but I have a split the observer and being. So I have tried "just being", and of course the conscious part is automatic - and I sit in being, all the while being aware that I am. In other words the split is very, very small. It is interesting also that there is nothing to hold on in being - whereas the action of focusing on being gives the mind some hold. Now mind you this is not like Shikantaza, because my focus is on the I am, not on emptiness.

What you think? I find in being - I couldn't get any closer to the I am. Don't worry I am still sitting in silence, this way seems to be much better. I just wanted your thoughts on this. I don't want to make any adjustments without your advice.

My Response:

You have to focus on being for a while to get a feel for what it is like. Then you can sort of "fall back" into that sense of being and just abide there. The latter is very comfortable. You should play with the I Am sense. It varies in feel and manifestation.

THIS IS HORRIBLE:

FESTIVAL OF MASS ANIMAL KILLING BEGINS IN NEPAL:

AP – Butchers with butcher knives participate in religious rituals before slaughtering buffalos during a mass …

• Slideshow:Nepal begins controversial animal sacrifice festival

By GEMUNU AMARASINGHE, Associated Press Writer – Tue Nov 24, 12:00 pm ET

BARIYAPUR, Nepal – The ceremony began with prayers in a temple by tens of thousands of Hindus before dawn Tuesday. Then it shifted to a nearby corral, where in the cold morning mist, scores of butchers wielding curved swords began slaughtering buffalo calves by hacking off their heads.

Over two days, 200,000 buffaloes, goats, chickens and pigeons will be killed as part of a blood-soaked festival held every five years to honor Gadhimai, a Hindu goddess of power.

While cows are sacred and protected by law in Nepal, animal sacrificehas a long history in this overwhelmingly Hindu country and parts of neighboring India. The Bariyapur festival has become so big, in part, because such ceremonies have been banned in many areas in the neighboring Indian state of Bihar.

And while it is criticized by animal-rights protesters, the festival is defended as a centuries-old tradition.

Many Nepalis believe that sacrifices in Gadhimai's honor will bring them prosperity. They also believe that by eating the meat, which is taken back to their villages and consumed during feasts, they will be protected from evil.

Taranath Gautam, the top government official in the area, estimated that more than 200,000 people had come for the ceremony in Bariyapur, some 100 kilometers (60 miles) from Katmandu. Some brought their own animals to sacrifice.

"I am here with my mother who had promised the goddess she would sacrifice a goat. It was her wish and promise and I am glad we were able to fulfill it," said Pramod Das, a farmer from the nearby village of Sarlahi. "I believe now my mother's wishes will come true."

Animal rights groups don't have much power in Nepal, but they have staged repeated protests in recent weeks. Local news reports say some activists set up stands in towns on the way to the Bariyapur temple, offering Hindu pilgrims coconuts and other fruits to sacrifice instead of animals.

There was no sign of them Tuesday.

"We were unable to stop the animal sacrifices this year but we will continue our campaign to stop killings during this festival," said Pramada Shah of the group Animals Nepal.

The ceremony, which goes back for generations, has enormous resonance in a country where per capital income is about $25 a month, illiteracy is widespread and vast social divides have left millions working as tenant farmers for feudal landlords.

Even many educated Nepalis see value in the tradition.

Om Prasad, a banker from the nearby city of Birgunj, brought offerings of fruit and flowers to the festival, but said he believed people should be able to sacrifice animals if they want.

"It is their tradition and it is fine if they continue to follow it. No one should try to tell them they can't follow what their ancestors did," he said.

Experts say it will take many more years before there are changes in these deeply rooted traditions.

"They continue these animal sacrifice rituals because they believe it is a tradition that can't be broken," said Ram Bahadur Chetri, an anthropology professor at Katmandu's Tribhuwan University. "The people who follow these traditions believe that if they discontinue, then the gods will get angry and there could be catastrophe in the country."

Buffaloes, goats, chicken and ducks are sacrificed at most Hindu homes in Nepal during the Dasain festivals, which fell in September this year.

SENT TO ME: (Sometimes I get confused about how gmail works and the order of the emails. So, below some emails may be out of sequence or missing.)

Whenever I put attention on it, it is clear that I am totally beyond perception, beyond every experience, beyond awareness itself: awareness seems as the screen for the perception of the 'world' (the field of perception), but I am totally out of it and different from this screen also; the state of non-separation comes and goes but I am not a state. Space, time, existence itself are illusions. All this too, are only concepts.

But...there is not contentment; there are still attachment and aversion, desires, often I am identified with thoughts and emotions, the sleep is normal (I am not counsciouness in dreams and sleep); in Ramana language I suppose, there are vasanas.

It seems to me very different from Ramana and Robert condition.

What is the aim? and the way? What you suggest? What is your experience of this phase?

With gratitude and affection,

L.

REPLY:

I'd like to know better how you got where you are.

I have a discussion on my blog currently that is somewhat relevant.

There are two things necessary for balance: meditation practice which
energizes conciousness, and prajna, or understanding.

You may need to start all over again in meditation to build dhyan power.

Robert and Ramana were mostly in meditation every moment, resting in
silence. You are distracted by the world, and your ego is not dead.

But, I hope you see that the state you are in is o.k.?

Ed

TO ME:

You are distracted by the world, and your ego is not dead


This is the point! You are right.
Are you saying that ego can die when there is balance between meditation and understanding?


Robert and Ramana were mostly in meditation every moment, resting in silence.


Yes, Thank You! to rest in silence for me seems the key now!


But, I hope you see that the state you are in is o.k.?


I am not in a state: precisely sometime I'm identified with waking state, during night in dream and sleep states, sometime with non-dual state (all is awareness) and sometime I remember I am not any of these states, I am not an experience, a state, etc., all these appear as illusions or films or dreams.
But there is not stability in any state nor beyond!


I am OK!


The only problem seems 'my' identification with these states and the following suffering.


My deepest wish to end this apparent game of identifications...


There are two things necessary for balance: meditation practice which
energizes conciousness, and prajna, or understanding.

It seems you are saying that in my case understanding is better than meditation power: so the medicine is rest in silence!


I'd like to know how you got where you are.


Shortly:


In this mirage i am XX, with a wife and a daughter of Y: i teach math in high school in ZZZ.


In 1983 i practice Vipassana (at sixsteen zazen for a while) and after that several types of meditation: kriya yoga, yoga of Sri Aurobindo, awakening of Kundalini power (shaktipat from several masters in particular Anandi Ma). In 1999 I attended my first retreat of Intensive of Illumination where I had my first brief kensho about 'Who I am' and then many others experience of non-duality.


In the last 7 years I practiced mostly surrender to kundalini power and studying Dzogchen and experiencing rigpa (non-dual awareness).
I didn't understand what you have written in your site about 'beyond non-dual awareness' until i had the experience i described to you and you answered so:


This is perfect understanding.

Now, however, you have to make it your own by continuing to be self
reflective. That is, now the inner/outter distinction is lost and you
must maintain that by resting in the totality of unified
consciousness.  Then, that you are beyond even this becomes completely
owned by you.

Very good work!!

Ed


MY REPLY:

Precisely, you are not any of these states. Not the waking, sleep or
dream states. Not the non-dual state. You are beyond all states.

The ego will die when it does. It is not possible to do something to
make to die except observe and remain in silence.

Are you able to isolate a feeling of 'I Am'?  If so, merely ret and
observe I am, and everything will unfold by itself. I am attaching the
Nisargadatta Gita, if I have not sent it before. Read it every
morning. Download it. Put it in a 3 ring binder. It will help. Dearest Ed,

L. TO ME:


"Precisely, you are not any of these states. Not the waking, sleep or dream states. Not the non-dual state. You are beyond all states."

Yes, it is clear. All the states are different modes to experience the field of perception, but I am totally out from this field and all the states in it, or of it. The field of perception (=the universe) is like a small leaf floating in the infinite ocean the Mistery of What I am (and everything is).

"The ego will die when it does. It is not possible to do something to make to die except observe and remain in silence."

Thank You very much! this is what i was hoping to receive: a clear answer about ego-death.

Are you able to isolate a feeling of 'I Am'?  If so, merely ret and observe I am, and everything will unfold by itself.

For me is difficult and seems a burden to search something like this: every thought and feeling dissolve itself putting attention on it, only awareness remain; but if  'I Am' can be interpretated as awareness or silence than yes, i can rest in silence (or awareness).

I am attaching the Nisargadatta Gita, if I have not sent it before. Read it every morning. Download it. Put it in a 3 ring binder. It will help.

Yes, i have Nisargadatta Gita, thank You very much for your gift and for your words which are very inspiring!

with love and gratitude,

L.

MY REPLY:

Yes,

I am is awareness or silence.

No more is to be done than rest there.

Ed
 

SENT TO ME: 


I am not very far gone on the path to enlightenment, it seems I am > merely starting to tread on its' outskirts as of yet. Anyway, for now I > feel the largest obstacle in my way is fear. Sometimes not even fear - > sometimes dread; perhaps a dread of the unknown. A fear that is keeping me > from practicing, inquiring or (to a lesser extent, and for what it's worth) > studying. I sometimes wish I could leave this "search" alone, yet I'm always > dragged - sucked - back into it without exception. Sometimes almost like an > unwanted obsession, it seems (to be semi-serious)! 


Though it is indeed like > I feel that I've glimpsed reality, and now I cannot leave it alone. I do > indeed want to find what is hidden yet always present, but fear is holding > me back, which leads to this ambiguous relationship to the spiritual search. > When reading Robert's "Silence of the Heart" for example, I sometimes get a > very intense feeling. In a sense it is a mediative feeling, and in a sense a > "dissolving" feeling. That dissolving feeling is often unsettling, and I > guess that is the core of my fear. Even practicing locating the "void" > within, and being the witness of myself is somewhat unsettling. It feels as > if I may venture "too deep" and get lost, whirling down a vortex of angst > and confusion; perhaps a fear of loosing my senses? 


What too scares me is > the "finality" of it all, how when the ego "dissolves" - it's gone. It's a > point of no return. What if I don't like what I see? It feels like I'm on > the edge of a cliff about to jump. People say I will be fine - yet I can't > be so sure. I guess my emotions towards this is neatly summarized in the > saying: "Leap, and the net shall appear". 


Yet, I am still not able to trust > that it will. > > Generally I'm having a hard time locating the root of the fear. Is it a > fear of the unknown, or a fear of coming to the end of my existence? Or > are they even synonymous? From one perspective it is a fear of abandoning > all that I hold dear, and completely venturing into the unknown. I realize > that in one way I am the unknown - and the unknowable - yet it does not > soothe my angst. I also realize that nothing could really be said about > reality, since it is beyond duality - still I dread what I might find beyond > the realms of consciousness. And the fact that I've read about people's > experiences with ego-dissolution can initially be very terrifying doesn't > really help (or terrifying for over ten years, when reading Suzanne Segal's > story: http://www.nonduality.com/suzanne.htm). 


Is there anyway to overcome > this fear, or at least: how should I cope with it or even relate to it? > > I'm sorry if gets a bit rambling at times, sometimes it does when my > thoughts aren't exactly structured, as is now the case. > > Thank you, 

P.

REPLY:


Fear ALWAYS has a body component, such as a prickly sensation around the heart or stomach, or a feeling like falling. It is only a body sensation. There is nothing in the fear that can cause you or your body harm. So get to know the fear. Watch it. Welcome the various sensations. You might even begin to enjoy the sensations that many call fear. Your mind is very busy trying to save itself by imagining all sorts of bad outcomes, yet, you are caught in the jaws of the tiger of thirst for self-knowledge. You have to go straight ahead. Do not deviate. Also, when you feel the fear and explore the fear for a while, turn the attention more inward and try to find who is feeling the fear. That witness is not touched by fear, nor can it be killed or harmed in any way. Get to know that source.  
Ed

SENT TO ME: 

Thank you so much for you quick reply. I have come across the Nisargadatta Gita but have not read it deeply...I will give it my full attention. I did start reading Prior to Consciousness a few weeks back and it feels even more astounding than I am That...if that's even possible.  

Thank you again Ed...I will let you know how it goes.

N

  

Yes, Pointers is more advanced because Jean Dunn's understanding was more advanced

Maharaj said of "I Am That," that it was grade school, while Prior to Consciousness was graduate school.

Jean was only one of 2 people Maharaj authorized to teach. Balsekar was not I might add. I think Ramesh falls in the category of my previous post, of someone whose understanding was not backed by sufficient meditation practice.  I understand near the end he had become quite critical of Maharaj and Ramana both, and may have been abusive of some of his students.  I don't know, I only hear rumors.

SENT TO ME:

Edji,  Sorry for writting two mails today.I know much what we communicate should > be in silence and in our "beingness" but there are few questions in my > mind.One is to do with the "star" sir.... > While in dhyaan,witnessing the void ahead of me i sometimes see a dot of > light which on concentrating dissapears.Then some revolving cirlcle of light > which expands sometimes or few flashes of bright expanding light.None of > these are in any particular order.They appear and disappear. > Maybe it is the play of consciousness again but Kriya Yogis give a lot of > importance to penetrate the small dot of light.They wouldnt value what you > actually go thru during the day ,bliss and love of consciousness ,d > oneness,or witnessing process in fact most i knew dint even know what i was > going thru...Few would say increase pranayama and few would decrease it and > none knew exactly what was happenning to me..Only you explained and finally > i understood that the play of consciousness was happenning to me. > I did learn from kriya though ,i was practicing it for 2 to 3 hours daily > at a strech doing heavy kumbhaks sometimes which i feel resulted in few > health problems too...The "results" i am getting by following Advaite are > the same as Kriya ,infact much better without the dangers of too much breath > control..and many unanswered qustions were resolved too which they had no > idea about...My Guru Dubeyji who initiated me in my lineage 5 yrs ago had > but he left us very early,we could interact very little and then no one > really knew anything apart from the "star"... > But sir what is this "penetration" of 3rd eye ? Is it vital for > self-realisation sir? > many pranams, > Rajiv

Hi Rajiv,

I will explain this precisely because it is an important question and the answer is relevant to many people who ask me questions.

In Zen, masters talk about the need to balance Joriki with Koriki.

I forget which is which, but basically the concept is that concentration, or samadhi power must move in step with wisdom, otherwise the attainment is incomplete.

You have generated tremendous dhyan power after five years of meditation practice, so the wisdom of understanding the true nature of consciousness comes easily to you now. Now there is a better balance as your understanding has caught up to your huge bank account of spiritual energy.

Most people who run into Advaita teachings don’t practice meditation, and the true meaning of Advaita escapes them because their power of attention has not energized their awareness.

I don’t think most of the current teachers recommend intense practice, therefore those who follow them may have strong understanding, but no real attainment. They don’t have the transformative energy of samadhi power.

However, one can play around with meditation and concentration forever, trapped in various spectacular displays in their imaginal spaces. Many Buddhist traditions spend entirely too much time exploring various sorts of Voids.

The same is true of the Third Eye.  My “eye” was opened within months of starting practice because it seemed natural for me to do so. It seemed as if that particular task was set before me as a natural unfolding. The Third Eye just gradually opened during intense meditation and gradually expanded to reveal the Void nature of consciousness. But you already know that, so there is no need to penetrate anything. But you may want to do so simply to see for yourself to complete your schooling.

There are deeper mysteries you need to unfold yet, and I will help you through them when the time is come. But the Third Eye is a beginner’s discovery. You are way beyond that.

You need to slow don a little and consolidate your gains or you will lose them.

SENT TO ME:

How beautifull You say such words of wisdom....

It is all an illusion. I got that and normally i dont even affirm myself but as you rightly said i kind off played around just to check out a bit.My consciousness took me there in dream state too. But yes it is just a play,nothing at all to be taken seriously...

I know thoughts are an illusion,nothing real...the dream state even though more beautifull and vibrant /colorfull than wakefull state ,i knew  in the dream it was unreal and i am slowly getting hints that consciousness itself too is unreal.

I can notice the change in the "love" of consciousness itself now....The stream of consciousness is there, it covers and prevades all but its changing its form....its not always "oneness" now...infact soemtimes its depressing too hehehe....It gets beautifull sometimes but sometimes its not so at all....I check whether its to do with a thought, NO it is not,mostly its just a passing emotion of sadness.grief (now there is no reason for it at all) ,it just is....

I simply observe it ,thats my "being" ,my I-AMNESS...so it is...nothing to do..just pure observation....so i learned that this joy and happiness,the oneness is temporary in the realm of consciousness which i had thought was the state to be always....the "ME" itself is temporary....And i am observing it too,i can feel the sadness,greif,depression in my heart arising even in the state of so called "consciousness" and i remembered your words "This is not Real",Not You...

Well it cant be me if i can observe it right :-)....During that period it is not that i am in an thoughtless zone but its not important ,the thoughts...they are there ,doing the job what they have too....my attention is more on the "beingness" even if it is sadness,depression or joy...whatever....This very moment is "beingness" or I-AMNESS...I touch that...but its not permanent bcoz its nature is duality so now i know....

You had warned me earlier on this and i thought Ah ,i am in bliss,i need nothing....i am This....i am bliss....I am oneness....But now look at me....hahhahaa.....And trying to create means identifying with it,i mean it will involve effort and ego,a struggle for more and more....

Why not just be in that "beingness" itself...Let the consciousness give whatever it wants to give me sir....I remind myself again and again....Be the witness....Isnt this right sir?

Sir you say out of love for me and those who really need you...You have a huge heart and are very kind....The only book i would like to read would be on me,which would have all empty pages...Nothing in them....I want to be capable to read that nothingness in me if possible...The thing to teach would be only to my own self....to serve in any capacity...and to remain worthy of taking the dust of your feet sir....
Many Pranoms,
 Rajiv

You have come far Rajiv, and very rapidly, which means you have to spend some time consolidating all the states and understanding to make it permanent in yourself.

The bliss generally passes after a time as it is a function of Samadhi and various types of unitary consciousness. In fact, I found the bliss to be quite distracting and unnecessary.

Most make a big deal of Sahaja Samadhi, unity with the totality of consciousness, which really means the Void. But the source—YOU—are beyond the Void, and Sahaja does not apply to the source. It is a traditional precondition that isn’t really necessary.

In the end, after many of your remaining hindrances drop off, you will just rest, doing nothing special, in yourself, no longer making effort to  explore or grow spiritually. Your journey and struggle will be over.

At this point, you will either become like something dead with no response to the world which is the fate of some, or there will awaken in you the strongest conceivable sense that you are responsible for the world, for it does emminate from your mind.

You will make a decision to help all sentient beings in any way you can, from offering the shoes off your feet to some homeless person, to risking your life to save an animal. This to me is the real liberation—an immersion into a universal Mother Love.

I think I know which way you will go, and I hope you make that choice, though it will not seem to be up to you. It will happen to you.

I’d like to make one suggestion. This whole unfolding process requires close attention to detail. When you write, please take increased attention to detail as to how you express yourself. Use proper English sentence structure, spelling and punctuation and separate different thought sequences into paragraphs.

If you are going to be a teacher, you need to express yourself clearly for others to easily understand. It is also necessary to cultivate this attentiveness because it is easier in this way to become aware of hidden concepts remaining in your understanding.  You need to become precise in expression and deconstructing what others say to you.

Ed

I've been wanting to email you for some time now, and after reading your post from a few days about teaching, was finally moved to do so.

About two years ago I stumbled upon J. Krishnamurti. I wasn't a seeker in the normal sense and had no clue about the "seeker culture" and the pursuit of enlightenment...still something in his words spoke to me deeply. Eight months or so later, I watched a dialog with K and David Bohm...at one point Krishnamurti exclaimed, as I had read many many times..."Sir, the thinker IS the thought!" Nothing in my life can compare to what happened at that moment...though I didn't understand all the implications...at that moment I knew I didn't exist as I had always thought. Strangely, about one month later I met my flute (shakuhachi) teacher...one of the first things she said to me was "you are not who you think you are"! I couldn't believe it. Seemingly out of nowhere (a whim to learn the flute) I met someone immersed in Zen for 30 years and with what only can be described as a devotional love of Nisargadatta and Ramana.

This last year has been spent reading "I am That". It is without a doubt the most profound thing I've ever read. Last Spring there were three nights where there was unbroken awareness through sleep...experiences which I've had in years past but never to this degree and never with the understanding of what was taking place...a confirmation that I am not even this consciousness. Recently a rephrasing of the "Who am I?" inquiry popped in my head...suddenly I asked myself "How do I know I am?" This seems to be a profound question, one that takes me straight to the feeling "I am",  and one that I can't yet really answer...is this a correct question to meditate on?

I've never had any spiritual practices and have never done any "formal" meditation...my flute teacher is adamant about catching thoughts...looking for a 'core' negative thought...which I have seen...I don't feel ruled at all by any thought. I'm just watching...from morning till night...I don't feel like "I" am doing anything, yet there still feels like something that should be done...any advice or encouragement would be greatly appreciated. 

I feel very drawn to Robert, Ramana, and Nisargadatta, anoughts.d have no doubts about their teachings...just not sure how to proceed. 

Thank you so much for your time.

N.

To N

Thoughts are not important. I think you have already seen all the way through thoughts. Better to concentrate on on your sense of being alive, of existing. Since you are attracted to Nisargadatta, I will send you a very practical guide to self-inquiry by Pradeep Apte called the Nisargadatta Gita. You can also find it on the Internet.

Download it, print it out and out it in a 3 ring binder. Read it every morning for a few weeks. Ponder its meaning, and watch your sense of beingness.  Then write to e about your experience.

By the way, the core thought is "I," and t is neither positive or negative. It is a conceptual pointer towards something that does not exist. When you see the I thought has no meaning, you will become ne with consciiousness. At least that is how it happened to me and many, any others who have written to me.

Edji,
 Last night i had a unique expereince.I want to know if my understanding on this is correct or no sir?

Actually yesterdays meditation  (which i have send in another mail to you sir)gave me a glimpse that i was oscilating or moving from waking to dream states and vice versa.

So i thought i will try and meditate while in sleep during night time and try and be aware what of actually takes place.So i kept my deepest attention at the void and kept thoughts out and relaxed.I affirmed that i keep my attention as far as possible on the void till i fall asleep.The next moment i realized that i was dreaming bcoz i was with few people chatting. But i knew very well i was actually dreaming this bcoz i could literally will myself back to waking stage,I then would go back to dreaming state again,this time something about my son being in the room but yelling...i KNEW this was a dream too and i could actually choose what kind off dream i wanted. Now in the very dream i was excited of this and thought i will write to you this tommorow itself but then i thought why not visit you too by thought in the dream state as i could do whatever i wanted in the dream state. But then something held me back.I decided i not venture too far.Maybe some fear or something.

Well How i can be so sure that it was not a dream that i was dreaming that i was aware of the state is bcoz i could move from dream to wake on will.Also that very night i had to run around with my son who got me pretty exhausted physically ,he is just 8 and i am 38 but these kids are blessed with more energy so i had exert and had a slight muscle contraction.Now in dream state i was aware of that contraction too...strange but true....i was connected with my physical body in someway...i felt it in my dream state and then i consciously became aware of my waking state and saw yes it was slightly paining...

Then i was convinced i could move in these 2 states...i tried the third time again just to make sure,this time i saw a geometric image at my third eye,it was blazing with bright and greenish glow and i got scared and started reciting "OM" "OM" and then i tried hard to open my eyes and go to waking state but this time i
 just COULDNT....i was paralysed and then i remembered you saying all this is unreal....i am only a witness...i just looked at it...it dissapeared on its own and i was awake in some time...i reflected on all that what happened....i had all kinds of thoughts pouring and had difficulty to sleep back....but then i managed to remember that all this is an illusion,play of consciousness....its nothing to do with me....and magically the thoughts subsided and i slept to wake up like a normal routine.I remebered everything in the morning.

Sir do u think it is possible to move between these stages during sleep? Has this to do anything with advaite understanding?

,
 Rajiv

Rajiv,

My experience is that all states of consciousness are illusionary, and merely happen to me, like clouds passing overhead. They have no substance. These states and experiences don’t touch YOU.

Yet, it is important to play with consciousness for a time to understand it has no real substance or existence to you. Just don’t take it too seriously. It is play. AND, it is easy to make false discoveries that are refuted a few days later by another false discovery. The only true discovery is all states are transcient, unreal.

It MAY be important for you to do Samadhi on the Void to become one with it for a time.  This is the traditional way.  It is a continuation of your love of and for consciousness which has brought you as far as you have come.

Remember, you do not exist as an entity, process or thing, and the world-consciousness—is doing its own thing.  Don’t worry anymore at all about thoughts. Just be aware of the Void and the coming and going of waking, dream and sleep.

This is important:

Every teacher has a slightly different “message,” based on his or her education, background and body-mind.  Two students can study under the same teacher and have two different messages, such as the difference between Ramana Maharsh and Nisargadatta’s messages, or Nisargadatta and his Dharma brother Ranjit.

You are nearly at a point where you begin to write your own book.

Personally, now I find little that interests me in the world or consciousness anymore.

I am left only caring about people who seek liberation, people who are in dire need, and animals, who are helpless to help themselves. I still participate in this illusory reality because I care for all the apparent beings and act as if they were real. What comes out of my mind or my voidness is of no interest to me. It is all illusion—temporary, changeable, without substance.

But, a kitten, who is living in a ditch, cold, wet and hungry; to me, that kitten and her need is my only reality. In the end, the book you write may be very different. I hope though that your book will be filled with kindness and a sense of justice and caring.

You and I appear to be connected on a very deep level as our experiences and messages and experiences seem so similar. You appear to have all the equipment to be a great teacher some day.  Do not rush.  Go slowly, gently. Be gentle with yourself and others.

And yes, you can move between the various states, but who is moving? You do not move, the states do.  If you are consciously acting, it is still the ego playing, not YOU.

Ed

SENT TO ME:


Sir after the initial I-thought or rather witnessing of thought is over ,a stream of conciousness is maintained for sometime till a few thoughts disturb it too.This the dark void or emptyness we call conciousness which i had earlier termed "me"  ,i see i was identyfying with this earlier taking that to be the subject and thoughts to be the object.But clearly now i can see that the "conciousness" itself is the object.

This is a very important insight is it not? Consciousness is not you. The Void is not you. For years I made a mistake of identifying with the void as me, even though, in a way, I knew better, because I was not one with it. Oneness with the totality of consciousness came and went thousands of times, but was not a steady state.


In Zen, no one was pointing beyond the void. In a sense, the true you who is beyond the Void; what can it be called, or how can it be described? The Void beyond the Void?, or "That which has no qualities, including existence, non-existence or Voidness?" 


There are various Samadhis wherein you become one with objects in consciousness, or even the Void. When you become one with the Void, you become everything-oneness. But Samadhis are temporary.


You cannot do Samadhi on the source. The source is already complete, whole and self-contained and entirely beyond the world of objects and consciousness including the Void.

During the course as i was witnessing the "conciousness" itself many times few floating totally irrelevant thoughts would appear and try disturb the state.Especially when i see only the "conciousness" it goes "Ah i see it" ,a thought .So now i witness the "consciousness" and also the apparent "thought" ,this is not an identification of thought,it just meaningless thought which appear and disaapear.So the "one" witnesses both the consciousness and the thought.My question sir is :

1) What do i do with the thoughts which sprang on their own? I can witness the start of them and then they do dissapear but they appear again disturbing the witnessing of the object "consciousness".Many times i can maintain witnessing both the "consciousness" and thought at the same time.Will these meaningless thoughts completely disappear or no?

Don’t worry about the thoughts. They no longer have any power over you. Just focus on the sense of “I AM,” if you can locate that; otherwise focus on the container of consciousness, the Void-nature interpenetrating all phenomena as the container and background, and then occasionally, try to turn around and catch the subject or witness of the void. This will remind you that you are not an object, a thing within this world.

By being extremely attentive to the field of conciousness ,the thoughts do fade away but they appear again after soemtimes especially when i "have it"
Will these meaningless thoughts completely disappear ever?

The thoughts no longer have power over you. Ignore them. They will always be there randomly as long as you have a brain and body. The brain is sort of like a radio receiver, picking specific thoughts out of the void depending on your past experience and genetics. You consciously have gone beyond thoughts and the power of thought.

The thing about witnessing is that it prevades normal waking stage too, meaning during office work and my walks especialy when i am not engrossed with work, i see the witness of the stream of conciousness and the thoughts which appear and disapear.The witnesser or subject can witness both at the same time,though the thought is powerless, is no more loud ,it is mild ,barely recognisable most of the time,but it still exists nonetheless.

2)I try locating where this subject is ,who is witnessing both but i cant find it anywhere,meaning the witnesser (at the background)cant be traced. The moment i can locate the witnesser ,it will cease to be the subject,it will become another object...sometimes i feel he is at the 3rd eye witnessing the awareness or consciousness and sometimes i feel he is at the heart..You said "watch the watcher" but i cant find him anywhere?

You can’t watch the watcher, so what conclusion can you draw? 

The observer does not exist in this world or any other!  You are beyond existence entirely.  You are not part of the manifest world You are not found within consciousness.  You are the subject, with no existence in this world. You are utterly beyond all properties. This world has nothing to do with you.

This was Robert's message: Don't participate in the world, it has nothing to do with you.
 

I read a few stanza 7 to 8 of the Gita ,i get it but i will move very very slowly with it...perhaps 1 to 2 stanzas a day....

This is perfect. You are now answering the greatest questions posed by all beings through time. Consciousness---God---is revealing everything to you. There is no need to rush.  When I first read Nisargadatta’s “Prior to Consciousness,” I could read at most a page a day, sometimes only a paragraph.  Each sentence was like a hammer blow to my mind.  Even the second and third time.

Where you are, not 1/1,000 has touched. Don’t worry about speed. You are doing well.

Hows Momji doing? Has the condition improved?

She is fine, almost 100% recovered now.

Many Pranams,
 Rajiv

SENT TO ME:

Dear Ed, I have corresponded with you throughout this apparent journey. Which ultimately was not a journey anyplace just a tossing aside of my whole imaginary existence. One question, I have always taken pointers about the eternal now to mean there is nothing that seperates this moment from any other moment, only mental limitations (ie clock time). Lately, however there has been a very strong feeling that more than that, the states of waking, dream, and sleep are not linear, but are actually all happening at once, then the mind comes in and seperates them.  My experience is that ultimately none of the states are real and the mind kinda lines them up in rotation to keep some semblance of life. Is this more mind stuff? 

Yes, your understanding is fairly accurate, although I never got the
feeling that my mind was doing the arranging.  I think what is doing
the arranging lies beyond the mind. None of it is real, but the
imaginary body has its imaginary processes which cause fluctuations in
Consciousness. Yes, all the states appear to be similtaneously present. You might be right that it is the mind that is arranging them, but it would not be your personal mind, but a universal mind which you appear to participate in.

The thoughts that come to you are not really your thoughts either, but
universal thoughts floating in the void that your specific
beingness--body-mind apparatus--seems to pick out and accept as its
own.

It is all quite fascinating, isn’t it?  Nothing is as it seems before penetrating to the deepest level of consciousness and beyond. "Ordinary" people have no idea about all this. If they read this site we'd all be condemned to an asylum. 

SENT TO ME BY DAVID:

"To go all the way, you have to become nothing, useless. You have to let God or your teacher take everything away from you, including your knowledge and understanding, and become nothing."

This is so true.  Surrender means your life is over -- period.  The body may continue to be extremely active in the world, but it's a body of ashes, running around in a phantasmal dream world that never was.  The Jnani may laugh with the laughing and sympathize with the sorrowful, feast in golden hued palaces or live on the street and search through garbage for his meals, raise a family in the suburbs or dwell in a cave as a hermit.  It's all the same.  It's an irrelevant non-experience completely devoid of any meaning or consequence.  It's not the waking state, it's not a dream, it's not Turiya, it's not real, unreal or any state or non-state that language or thought can describe or point to.  It just is ... and it's good.

This sounds absolutely horrible to most people.  They can only conceive of the relative happiness or unhappiness that's tied to identification with the human experience.  They cling to objects which bring them joy, even though they know those same objects will eventually change or go away entirely, causing them great sadness.  They do this because they haven't ever had a glimpse of real, limitless joy, and they don't want to give up the limited happiness they sometimes experience because they don't believe there's anything better.

So, like heroin addicts, people are always looking for their next fix to get them through another day.  Eventually, they get sick of it all.  They decide that happiness laced with poison sucks -- that it's just not worth it.  They don't want to participate in the madness anymore, even if it means giving up the so-called good things.  Then they wake up, and experience the real joy of who they are (i.e., aren't).  This process takes a long time, yet happens in an instant.

Be well Ed.

David

Yesterday's post was about becoming nothing. It is full of concepts such as phenomena, noumena, consciousness, existence and to the void. As such, it is a complete lie. Concepts can never grasp the real.

The point of posting was only a warning not to stop practicing too soon.

To go all the way, you have to become nothing, useless. You have to let God or your teacher take everything away from you, including your knowledge and understanding, and become nothing.

Most seekers will not do this. They want to be something, and unitary consciousness feels like a good place to stop.

Robert was the Good For Nothing Man. That is why he never had more than 50 people come to Satsang while other teachers had thousands. Only those who were willing to give up everything would accept becoming nothing as a goal.

I arrived last night in Phoenix and saw my mom for the first time in two years. She was released from the hospital after an 8-day stay two days ago. She says she feels great. She has a condition that could recur at any time at which could kill her, namely diverticulitis with severe infection and bleeding. At age 92 the doctors refuse to provide survival odds if she had to undergo surgery if the bleeding became too severe.

I brought two books with me in case I had time to begin preparing lessons on Robert's teachings, Prior To Consciousness by Jean Dunn, and Consciousness in the Absolute, also by Jean.

Jean and I had grown to become friends over the years prior to her death. She had a friend in Los Angeles who she visited quite frequently, and whenever she was here, I would see her, usually at a hotel near the Los Angeles airport. We would talk for hours. Our last visit was about two years before she died. She had severe emphysema and the depressurization in the airplane’s cabin nearly killed her. The doctors told her that she could never fly again.

During this visit she gave me a photograph she had taken of Nisargadatta along with little book called "Self Knowledge and Self-Realization" by Maharaj. Both are posted on the http//itisnotreal.com website.

Last night I was glancing through her Consciousness and the Absolute book for the first time in several years. She very carefully explains the essence of Maharaj’s teachings, which is even more carefully elucidated by Nisargadatta himself in the following 4 pages of chapter One.

As a backdrop I wanted to explain that Robert once or twice a private told me that there was no Consciousness, that Consciousness itself was only apparent, it was illusion. This is precisely Maharaj’s teaching. Robert told me that he really couldn't say this public because people would not accept that message. He even joked that people would kill him for that message.

Isn’t this precisely true? Are not most of the spiritual teachers today saying only that your essence is Consciousness, Consciousness is all that there is, and calling that beingness? Their message is that the ego is not real, but Consciousness, beingness, is all that there is and is eternal.

In fact, both Robert and Nisargadatta equivocate in these precise teachings. In fact, in both Robert and in Nisargadatta, you can find a little bit of everything, including talks where Robert will say you are Consciousness itself, beyond the mind and ego. At other times, he would publicly say that you are beyond the Consciousness, you are beyond everything.

On introductory page vii, Jean Dunn states concerning Nisargadatta’s teachings, "Abiding in the "I-Amness" (or Consciousness, which is pure love), that Consciousness itself will give us all the answers. At the present time, Consciousness is what we are, not personal Consciousness, but impersonal universal Consciousness. In the course of time, the Consciousness will show us that we are not even this, but we are that Eternal, Absolute, unborn, undying."

This is very clear. He is saying your essential true nature is beyond Consciousness. You are beyond Consciousness, beyond the I am, beyond the ego, beyond the body. This is precisely Robert's teachings.

On page 4 of the book itself, Maharaj himself states:

"In deep sleep, Consciousness was in a dormant condition; there were no bodies, no concepts. Upon the arrival of this apparently wakeful state, with the arrival of the concept "I am", the love of "I am" woke up. That itself is Maya, illusion."

"Everything is beingness, but I, the Absolute, am not that."

"Consciousness depends on the body; the body depends on the essence of food. It is the Consciousness which is speaking now. If the food essence is not present, the body could not exist. Without the body, would I be able to talk?"

I will elucidate this understanding later as pointed out repeatedly by both Robert and Nisargadatta, but which is only implicit in Ramana's teachings as expressed by his students. Indeed, you can find confirmation of the same truth in Ramana's teachings if you look at the right books. Otherwise, most of his students identifying the absolute with Consciousness, and even more so, the waking Consciousness.

You might say there are three levels of I. There is the level of the I-word and I-concept, with the assumption and belief that there is an and entity that the concept describes, and that the I-word points to.

The second level of I identification, is at the level of identification with mind and Consciousness, which Nisargadatta calls "beingness," or "I-Amness."

Finally, there is the I as the absolute, completely beyond phenomonality, completely unknowable by the mind, without attribute and even without existence. This is what Western idealist philosophers--and Balsekar--calls the Noumenal, and which I might call the other-dimensional. This is the non-manifest, the unmanefest, unborn subject. Even saying that is to ruin it because you are giving names to that about which nothing can be said, because there are no attributes, entirely beyond existence.

On page 4 of Consciousness of the Absolute, Maharaj states regarding the absolute:

"In truth, your state is one of absolute bliss, not this phenomenal state. In that non-phenomenal state you are full of bliss but there is no experience of its presence. In that state there is no trace of misery or and happiness, only unalloyed bliss."

"Everything is beingness, but I, the absolute, am not that."

If you understand this, you will see this is completely beyond the current spiritual teachings that you are Consciousness and everything is Consciousness. Over the next few months and years I want to explain this ever more deeply and completely, as well as clearly outline what it takes to get there.

In 1968 I had completed Master’s work in Public Management at Western Reserve University in Cleveland. I had gone to Detroit and studied Economics as a Ph.D. candidate at Wayne State University. I had also been working as a demographer for the County Cleveland was located in, and at TALUS, Detroit’s seven year land use study.

I was sick of it. The County didn’t care about accuracy, only lying statistics that supported their claim for federal money. I saw economic theory was mostly empty words and unverifiable concepts—useless. (I am still a Keynsian however.)

I had gotten my BA in philosophy and had always been interested since age 11 in just two topics: ontology and epistemology. That is, what exists and how do we know? Hume and Kant were my Western philosophy mentors, while Ramana and Phillip Kapleau were my Eastern philosophy mentors. I had read Kapleau’s Three Pillars of Zen a half dozen times and Ramana’s “Who Am I” many more times than that. I still had no clue as to the nature of knowledge or existence and was mostly focused on the best way to practice self-inquiry.

               

One day, sitting by a window in an office in Cleveland after having performed population projections for 88 municipalities, and having heard one too many lies, I saw several sailboats floating by on Lake Erie. At that moment, I knew I could not put up with the farce any longer. My life was a waste. The world seemed totally out of whack and most people were in lock step with this out of whackness. I just didn’t fit. So, I decided to chuck everything and leave on a spiritual odyssey.

I took three books: Three Pillars of Zen, the Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi and The Practice of Zen by Garma C.C. Chang. All three books focused on how to practice self-inquiry.

Subsequently I got a job on several huge Great Lakes oar boats carrying taconite (iron ore) between Minnesota and Cleveland. Later, I took off and flew to visit my brother near Tucson and spent several months living in a small tent deep in the Sonoran Desert, all the while trying to figure out how best to practice self-inquiry.

I found this sort of searching useless. There were too many distractions, especially for an untrained, unstable mind. So I moved to Rochester New York to study with Phillip Kapleau, and later, to Mt. Baldy in Southern California to study under Zen master Sasaki Roshi.

It wasn’t until I made the commitment to study under a master that my meditation became focused and revealed results. Kapleau's Zendo was fantastic.

I talk about this in more detail on the website:  http://itisnotreal.com.

Anyway, I practiced self-inquiry off and on for 25 years before I had my first awakening as to a true understanding of ‘I’. I describe this as my shower experience on that website. 

It took me 25 years to fully comprehend what the I-thought meant. (I am more than a bit dimwitted.) What kept me so long is that I spent so much time immersed in the “more real I,” the background consciousness that Langford talks about, that I ignored the I-thought, seeing that the 'I'-thought itself had no substance. But I was still searching for a referent for that I-thought, an entity that the I-thought was associated with. I had thought that some day while immersed in that vast internal emptiness of self-illumined awareness, I would find the true subject. 


Intuitively, even then, I recognized that that consciousness itself was not me either even during and after complete unity experiences with that background consciousness. The emptiness was still an experience.

It was through all those early years of intense practice, sometimes sitting in meditation 10-12 hours a day for years that I experienced all the Kundalini nonsense and all the variable states of consciousness which entirely inhibited true understanding. It is so, so easy to get lost in experiences and understandings.

Finally, a few weeks after Robert Adams left Los Angeles and moved to Sedona I had my first awakening experience, which was to clearly see that the ‘I thought’ had no referent. It did not point to any internal entity. I also saw that the I-thought itself had no substance. It sometimes could be seen to appear like the visual floaters some nearsighted people have, like little transparent clouds floating into and out of emptiness. At other times, the ‘I thought’ (and other thoughts) appeared to be more like focusing mechanisms that aimed attention around in various ways, forming reality by "bending" emptiness into a form. I had focused for years on the emptiness, the awareness that contained everything, and was self-illumined, the light of consciousness, and had ignored the I-thought itself, and failed to see the import of all the preconceptions and false existences contained in the I-thought.


What was different about the shower experience, was that the sense of presence was gone. I was totally empty of presence, of I Am. There was just a vast space of consciousness, with no inner or outer, and no sense of existence of me.

That day in 1995, I finally saw, apprehended, understood, was blown away by the sudden understanding that emptiness was all that there was: emptiness was all that existed.  Eternal, vast space, self-illumined, permeating everything and filled with illusory conceptual forms, and I felt then that I was that. I saw that the I-thought had no referent. There was no I entity that the ‘I thought’ pointed to. There was no Ed Muzika. There was only space, disparate thoughts loosely connected with each other in a network of thought, and the ‘I-thought’ was simply another percept floating around in inner emptiness. No I was there; only emptiness existed and I was that.

Then I saw one other thing deeply: the ‘I-thought’ was what I had considered “subjective,” while all other thoughts were “objective.” That is, I had taken the I-thought as being me, the subject, inside my skin so to speak, and all other thoughts and concepts, such as of world, chair, map, food, other people, were “objective,” and outside of my skin.

When I saw the ‘I-thought’ was unreal, empty, I saw all other words and concepts were also empty. Immediately the world ceased to exist. By that, I mean I understood (Actually, it was more like an experience than an understanding.) nothing in the world that I saw was real; it was created by thought which made an object out of what is, within an unformed matrix of a vast, self-illumined emptiness which was all that is. There was just one emptiness, pervading all, with no inside or outside and I identified with that.

This is exactly Ramana’s initial experience: the “I-thought’ didn’t exist as an entity. It was empty, and with that insight, the whole world is found not to exist as we have always assumed it existed, as real, external objects.

All that there is, is the vast emptiness of consciousness, populated by forms which have no inherent existence except as concepts within consciousness.

However, I was later to see that this was only a partial awakening. 

I also saw the beginning of understanding that that this emptiness--consciousness--also was not me, it was still an object. I was witnessing it. The ‘I thought’ was even less me, because it sprang out of the emptiness-void, and disappeared back into it.

Later I discovered that this understanding acquired in waking consciousness, was only true about the waking consciousness. Ramana had not yet gone far enough in his initial awakening (at least according to how he explained it), just as I had not.

One has to see that the waking consciousness itself—the entirety of existence—is unreal, and that waking consciousness, as are the sleep and dream states, are added onto the deepest sense of me as witness.

You-me, the "Real" you and me, lie entirely beyond consciousness of the world, entirely beyond existence. You might say our true nature lies in an entirely different dimension from all observables, including the world, our minds, our dreams and various states of consciousness, and even the emptiness and the void; all are observables and we are beyond them. We are beyond everything, unborn and unwitting witnesses of all that is, which is merely fantasy stuff, making up the play of consciousness. 


Robert used to start every other Satsang by saying, "You are not real; you do not exist; you are nothing." Everyone laughed at Satsang--except me, I didn't find it funny, but true. Most everyone there had no idea that he was telling them they were beyond existence.

Not only do you need to give up identification with the world and the mind, but also emptiness--the self-illumined void consciousness.

When I announced this understanding to Robert he said I got it. After being with him for seven years I had gotten it. Robert had years earlier told me the real secret, which is that even consciousness does not exist in the sense it had no reality apart from the other-dimensional subject, the witness of all, about whom nothing can be known or said. 

You can only BE the witness, who everyone is already, but do not recognize it because they identify with the body or mind or other elements in consciousness.

This is so momentous of an understanding that it is difficult to convey no matter how hard I try, because I am talking in concepts, or pointers, and no one ever knows another’s subjectivity and conceptual matrix.

Each of us is a pseudo-person in a pseudo reality until we see through that I-thought network/matrix. That matrix can be relatively similar to the matrix of others in so far as each of us has common upbringings. But if education and life experiences are too different, truly understanding another’s world and knowing how to make a transformative impression on that person’s subjectivity is virtually impossible.

My body is now just two years younger than Robert’s when he died. I feel a weight of time pressing. My health is not good at times. I want as much as possible to make Robert and the understanding he gave me more available to the world.

I have noticed that the quality of questions and seekers now contacting me is far more spiritually “mature” than two years ago. There are more and more people who are “getting it” or on the verge of getting it, and by getting it, I mean going all the way beyond consciousness.

Therefore, I have decided to start teaching in earnest, which may or may not mean Satsang in Los Angeles, but definitely does mean I am going to attempt to clear up all doubts of anyone who has them by making a detailed exposition and explanation of at least (initially) three texts that I consider the key to getting it. The three are: The Path of Sri Ramana Maharshi, Part 1 by Sadhu Om and Michael James; Prior to Consciousness, edited by Jean Dunn, and the Nisargadatta Gita by Pradeep Apte. Later I might add some of Robert’s talks.

These expositions will come in the form of lessons covering a chapter or so of each text at a time. Maybe there will be a video post on Facebook or something like it.

Anyway, I’ll start in a couple of weeks. My mother is ill in Phoenix and I’ll be there for a while and will start when I return.

An email sent to me:


Hello,

I am that which knows the coming and going of the state of being. There was this complete fullness so to speak, complete within itself and then spontaneously the rising of the sense of being was known. This occurred during waking up from sleep. I am not able to understand this state.

I know what I am...I am non-conceptual...but now this wants to be captured in words...painful and confusing....words need to conceptulize me...I turn to you for some assistance.

I always recognized my sense of being..aware and unadorned by concepts as the space that I was...but when I now see that that too is rising and setting in what I really am...I am lost for words to understand......

On what is this knowing resting then?



My response:


Every answer would miss the point as all knowledge is about existence, objects, phenomena.

What you are is before existence.

You are uncreated, unborn.



His next email:


I am that which knows the coming and going of the state of being.

My Response: Yes, this is perfect understanding.

There was this complete fullness so to speak, complete within itself and then spontaneously the rising of the sense of being was known. This occurred during waking up from sleep.

Yes, this is how it is usually first seen.

I am not able to understand this state. I know what I am...I am non-conceptual...but now this wants to be captured in words...painful and confusing....words need to conceptulize me...I turn to you for some assistance.


All conceptualizations are only philosophy, empty, transitory, illusion. You must learn how to accept knowing nothing.

I always recognized my sense of being..aware and unadorned by concepts as the space that I was...but when I now see that that too is rising and setting in what I really am...I am lost for words to understand......

Don't you see? What you are is entirely beyond the mind and cannot be captured in words or concepts. There is no need to understand; just be.


New email:


The self or whatever it is..is so un-contrived...spontaneous and self sufficient...that is seen in ordinary moments of just simple being.

No words needed to be...simply are.

When these various states or experiences occur, there is an attempt to understand it..when the experience itself is not requiring that.. :) it also just is... and you have so correctly stated..all explanations are only about the state of existence...and therefore the correct answer in all respects is that ..you are unborn...that shuts any more concept building.

Ed..the clarity that these words you have written, also cannot be captured in words...i can only say..thank you!

Hi Ed, I recently fall caught in moments of purest Silence/Nothingness. It is impossible to tell something about it. After them I realize nothing exists; everything one can think or imagine is absolutely nonexistent. A feeling of immensurable peace and sense of freedom rises. Silence/Nothingness comes suddenly, unforeseeably; for example, in a moment of relaxation after a bustling day. I don’t know what to do about it. I would have this Silence/Nothingness forever, I feel it is liberation, but I seem the more I try to do--even a too zealous formal practice--the worse the result is. I don’t know how to approach to it. Love, S

Don't rush. Relax. Just sit in silence as often as you can in awareness of silence or in awareness of your sense of presence. But don't get anxious or try to speed it up.

I took down my Tolle rant because I don't know what I am talking about. I have not read him or any of the other neo-Advaitins, and therefore don't know what I am talking about. Robert was wiser than I and never talked about other teachers.


My point though was you hardly ever make any progress by reading or thinking. Both engage the discursive mind leading to endless internal and external dialogues. 


Isn't it true we read because we lack confidence in our own ability to find and explicate truth? Is it not true we mostly read to confirm what we already think we know? Isn't true that when we read and think, we cannot see ourselves because the focus of awareness is on concepts?


A large part of our spiritual education is to develop self-confidence in our own ability to find our own truth by looking within, and not reading books to tell us what we should be finding there. You have to develop a boldness where you set off on your own to find the truth of your being.


Michael Langford, for all the faults of his book, correctly points out the need to slow the mind down and focus on a very few books to read, and to read them slowly and repetitively. He is absolutely correct. Better would be not to read at all, but to introspect, observe your consciousness, observe awareness and keep quiet.


In a Zen monastery, there is absolutely no talking during training periods. Ramana was silent for many years. Being with Robert was like being with silence all the time. Reading a book or attending a lecture, or writing poetry is anti-silence.


Develop your ability to abide in your own thoughtless awareness. Gradually you will develop an ability to remain with yourself and be confident of what your self-investigations are revealing. Gradually you will become comfortable not even articulating the new understandings that arise in you because you will recognize those understandings are illusory, tentative, passing, concepts only, and you can't capture the absolute in concepts. You can only rest peacefully in yourself.


Limit your reading to the resources I mention on the itisnotreal.com website. You might even want to limit your reading to two or three books, such as the Path of Sri Ramana, Part I, the Nisargadatta Gita, possibly Prior to Consciousness to blow your mind, or Langford's book.


You need to go deep into yourself, not marvel at the clear expositions of others that merely reinforce your present concepts which means there is no "progress." You are just rearranging deck chairs.


Please, don't waste your life entertaining spiritual concepts or visiting many teachers. Go deep within yourself; observe yourself; observe the I Am if you can isolate that sense of presence that is I Am. Be comfortable with the void-like emptiness. Become friends with the inner light of consciousness. Become aware of the emptiness that contains all. Become aware of the witnessing process. Soon you will see that reading and thinking take you away from your inner peace.

Hi Ed,

I just stumbled onto your site via “stumble”. I picked up a book at the local library called  “The power of now”, thinking it was sort of popular science. I had never read a “spiritual” book in my life, less even given the subject any thought whatsoever. Anyway, I seem to know what the guy is going on about somehow. I try “getting in touch with my body”, the first time I ever tried to “meditate” and have some very profound experiences. Anyway after that all my fear and anxiety seem to have fallen away. I’m not skipping around in some sort of spiritual bliss or anything, I just sort of feel nothing matters, that I know/feel something ( that I can’t explain ) that everything is  alright, a contentment. 

So, I join this Eckhart Tolle web site, now I just don’t want to sound like a spiritual crazy  but most of what’s being talked about I feel is not right. I don’t know how or why I know this but I start writing on these threads about shit I know nothing about and I’m thinking after, “what are you doing, writing all this stuff about awakening blah blah” I bump into your site and realize I’ve been writing about things I just read this morning. About stopping thinking (or how you can’t), the imaginary universe and body, lots of stuff I have absolutely no idea about. I have been writing stuff recommending people do this or that “en contra” to Tolle’s teaching, mad, what do I know? 

I like Tolle’s teachings but the more I listen the more I just think he’s skirting around the edge of something, flowery roundabouts, poetic musings. I can’t put my finger on it but I just know he doesn’t have what I want. 

Is it possible to know things, you don’t consciously know? I couldn’t talk for 1 minute about self-realization, but I “know” or feel a lot about it. Am I deluded, an over active ego? Maybe, maybe that is it! I wasn’t going to write about my “Meditation” experience because I feel such a fraud amongst all the knowledgeable and savvy people on the internet articulating their experiences......like you.....talking about lots of different meditation techniques etc.

Well anyway, It was beautiful but also frightening at the same time ( or in different phases) I felt myself going inside myself in stages. I got something like a strong electric shock from my toes right through my head each time. Not a nice sensation and each time I had to stop myself coming “awake” out of the whole thing. My body jerked each time, it was a very strong sensation. I could hear the traffic outside so I knew I wasn’t asleep. Basically I just felt like an atom shining in space at the end. I felt like everything had fallen away from me but I was enveloped in (I don’t know what ) I can only say that nothing mattered anymore. I was free (no wonder people sound pretentious writing about this stuff!)

I feel I am at the crossroads of something, what should I do?

M.

Hi M,

I have been away for a while. My mom was very ill--still is--and I am

going back and forth between LA and  Phoenix and Sedona and will be doing so through November. I hope to see Mary Skene in a few days, Robert’s left hand woman for many years.

My intuition is that you are correct about Tolle and most of the neo-advaitins. They have got a tip of the tongue understanding, but no deeper. I admit I have not read any of them, so I am speaking from ignorance. I rarely read anything in the area of spirituality, and if I do, it is usually Robert, Ramana, Nisargadatta, or a few of the old Advaita scriptures like the Rhibu Gita.

I admit my knowledge of the neo Advaitins comes from Facebook, email questions, watching a video, etc., but I have never got the impression that any of them actually have practiced self-inquiry as taught by Ramana, Nisragadatta, or Robert, or just went to the teachings of no self and stopped there.

Most of them quote Nisargadatta and read he practiced self inquiry by contemplating “I Am” for three years, which, by the way, is an amazingly short time, yet few if any talk about the need for practice.

Ramesh Balsekar for example, never talks about practice,and accepts the concept that enlightenment is about the understanding only that there is no I or self. They glomb onto that understanding and attempt to deepen it by just holding onto that understanding. But there is far, far more than this to Advaita.

The origin of the discovery of No I is an experience of the emptiness of all concepts and forms. It is a state that generates an understanding. Without experiencing that state, the understanding is only concept with no ability to actually change you. You just have new concepts. I describe that state on the http://itisnotreal.com website. 

You have to go further and "apperceive" that that state itself is observed by something that is beyond that state, and YOU are THAT. The neo Advaitins stop with an acceptance of waking consciousness and the sense of presence as the final understanding, or experience, and equate that with "enlightenment."

They also love to repeat there is no enlightenment because there is no I or self to be enlightened, but again, this is only concept and only an apparent contradiction. 

I think the problem may have started when they read about Ramana's initial enlightenment experience, where he pretended to be dead and concluded that since he was still aware of his waking consciousness, that the waking consciousness was ultimate, beyond which there was no further understanding or experience. Just realize and bathe in the sense of presence.

They fail to realize that what Ramana actually did was to glimpse that consciousness and all that is contains, is different from the body, even though there would be no waking consciousness without a body, nor dream or deep sleep either. His initial awakening would be described in Zen as Kensho--the initial awakening or enlightenment experience.

He also apparently realized there was no object that the word “I” referred to or anyone in charge of his body and mind. He, as observer, was just along for the ride. He stopped using his name, but still spoke of God, his father, ruler of all, more or less as the "other," or God, or Arunachala. There was still duality.

I am not sure he had become aware at that time that he was the only one, the Witness of all, or that the world itself was illusion, and waking consciousness was illusion.

Ramana then spent years deepening his understanding, penetrating through the dream and deep sleep states also, until all consciousness runs out and you are left with the mysterious Witness of all that is in consciousness. All the states of consciousness, all the four outer bodies of yoga are just superimpositions on YOU, the Witness of all. Anything you say about that ultimate state or Witness is absolutely a lie. Nothing can be known. It is not an object. It does not have existence as an object, but it does as a subject which is an ultimate existence as opposed to a conditional existence.

The stories of Ramana's sadhana (practice) during the next  ten or fifteen years are legion, sitting in Samadhi for weeks at a time until insects burrowed into his legs causing infections and bleeding that stuck him to the floor of the temple. They talk of samadhis where he was beyond the world for days and weeks at a time. 

I never hear about the new gurus spending days and weeks in silent meditation and Samadhi.

As Robert said, "Everyone wants to get in on the act." No one wants to

be a student.  I am just amazed by all the web teachers and what they say.

I feel I am at the crossroads of something, what should I do?

M., I can only suggest doing more of the same. Since you wrote 3

weeks ago, I assume you are doing more of the same. Introspect. Try to find the source of your “presence,” your sense of existence. If that does not work, just sit in the totality of the emptiness of your consciousness—the world of your waking experience.

Whatever you experience, know that it is temporary and any understanding gleaned is also temporary.

The hardest gate to go through is knowing nothing and being comfortable knowing nothing, being a nobody. None of the current gurus seem comfortable knowing nothing or being nobody. They have to be somebody with busy minds, busy with quotes, poetry, etc., even about knowing nothing. Robert used to say, the great ones, you never hear about.

They just can't let go and be nobody.

Just keep going.

This one is rare:

> Sir after the initial period of objectless concentration ,awareness is
> automatically turned within.The body after a few breathing pranayamas isnt
> felt at all.The body conciousness feels like a corpse,something like
> that.The body is there but the awareness is within.I become aware of the
> movement of thoughts,how they appear and how they drop.Many times during
> witness, the thoughts are not there and i reach a stage of sort of void or
> emptyness.At that time i observe an expansion happenning at the third
> eye...a nothingness prevails ,so then there is no object as such except that
> nothingness.Also i feel during witness stage there is another witness
> watching the witnessing ,as thoughts appear and identification starts ,that
> another witness is always watching whether witnessing is happenning or no
> and brings back to witnessing again....Its sort of complicated to express
> but it is something like that.Is this the "subject" you are referring too?
> Actually the period of nothingness or void is too short,the mind interferes
> and by witnessing it i reach a thoughless state for sometime till mind
> interfers again.All this while after the body conciousness is long
> lost,there is one more "witness" who is observing whether the witnessing is
> happening or no.yes something like that....


Yes, this is perfect understanding. Eventually there will only be one
witness. One of the witnesses is merely the mind commenting on the
introspection process.

You might, at this time, instead of trying to follow "I AM"
introspection, just try to witness the witness. Watch the watcher.

> I wanted to tell you also that yesterday i was in the "glimpse" for a full
> day after my dhyaan...I have already described what it is in that state in
> my earlier mail.There is much to go further you say but within and outside
> of me i feel this is it, as i feel a growing connection with everything
> around me ,just about everything.You said it is a form of samadhi,previous
> to you my kriya Guru had termed it as sarvikalpa samadhi.But these again are
> concepts ,but just curious what kind of samadhi you would define this
> as.sheer curiosity.

What you call the glimpse is the absence of the thinking process. You
are intently and completely aware without the chattering mind being
engaged. But in the glimpse you are not aware that all that out there
in the world is only your mind creation and is not real.

I have no names for the various samadhis. As you say, they are just
names and of no import. Even the experience of the various samadhis is
not important. In fact, nothing is important, except, to me, to live
as a kind and just man helping others, being a shepherd for all
physically and morally. You are your brother's keeper. All the rest is
only philosophy and illusion.

You are very close to finishing your self-exploration. Therefore I
urge you to ripen your understanding and peace, and care for others.

You are doing very well...

Ed

Hello Edji, My name is Rajiv K and i reside in mumbai,India. > I visited your blog and felt i write to you a few things.I write to one who > not only is a disciple of the great Robert Adams but also to the one who > himself is aware of "what is",probably the truth as it is.


I know its > impossible to correctly describe that state in words and there is no way > you,i or anyone can yet i feel inclined to communicate,share and learn from > you what you feel as regards the marvelous thing we call "consciousness" or > "truth" or watever names we can call it by... > > The past: > 


My "journey" began 13 yrs ago when i was first initiated in kriya through > YSS/SRF in mumbai.I had a very scary OBE expereince then and each time i > would sit i would be pulled in a dark tunnel speeding in high intensity.That > time i was just practicing a techinque called Hong-sau.Anyways YSS asked me > to discontinue the use of hong-sau and i felt that time they were least > bothered about anything except "surrender" to the Guru.Dissatisfied with the > response i seeked looking for a personal Guru who could help me with my > expereinces and satisfy all my deep spiritual longings. > 


After much seeking and looking and initiated a few more times with other > gurus i finally found the Guru my heart approved of.He was a traditional > Guru and very jovial person at the same time.He got me initiated in higher > kriyas including kechari mudra which supposedly is of immense importance to > expereince higher levels of consciousness.I personally dont feel any of my > expereinces would have been much different without kechari,but this is my > personal feeling.


During my practices in kriya i had various "expereinces" > like OBE,Lucid dreams,heightened awareness,even kevali kumbhak (stoppage of > breath automatically for a few seconds which gave immense joy all over each > cell of my body) etc etc...But somehow i always felt all this is very > delusionary as i set out to "achieve" more and more of this joy and > bliss,more and more of these expereinces like OBEs.I felt inwardly i was > seeking too much and my heart and mind was still not in rest except a few > occasions > when i expereinced a thoughtless state...rest of the time i was busy > seeking,making whole loads of images of Guru kripas and dreams of Gurus and > Babaji.


I felt inwardly i was getting deeper and deeper into a bundle of > various conditionnings and beliefs imposed by other chelas who beleived the > same.I felt there is something hugely amiss here either in my practice or in > my understanding....All i was awaiting for was to accumulate many > expereinces not realsiing that maybe the mind itself was creating them for > me... > > The in-between: > 


On realizing that probably the biggest barrier are my own beliefs and > conditioning's i just couldnt keep going with my kriyas.The very > technique,the very teachings i felt were becoming a sort of barrier to > expereincing truth as it is for the mind was beginning to reach "somewhere" > rather than just "being".I then decided that i shall observe ,simply observe > what is going on within and outside of me.I realised that the bliss,peace > and thoughtless state returned even without kriya.


The mere "observation" > resulted in this.And so i can carry on like this even in waking stage and > not only during kriya.All concepts like God,blessings,liberation,beliefs > dropped on carefull observation. > > The "Present" > I carry on trying to witness every thoughts,emotions than arise in my > mind.I realize that my awareness is growing as i start giving utmost > attention to everything happenning within and outside of me.There are > glimpses of joy and utmost bliss which prevails around me.


During that time > my state is like a man drunk but with extreme and heightened attention.I > feel drunk with immense awareness.There is nothing i like to achieve,gain or > be.I am just "it" .This is perhaps just "being".I observe everything so > clearly ,so bright ,the colors around me are much brighter than usual and > sparkle and dance around me.During that "glimpse" (as i call it) the > thoughts seem rare, and even if they arise i observe them clearly as they > come and go.


There is nothing to achieve,be or go anywhere.Everything around > looks so magical and pure like i am observing something new for the very > first time.There is no need of Guru or any God during that state.Everything > melts. > > The question > 


Edji i call the above a glimpse becoz it is not in continuity,it lasts for > perhaps 2 to 3 hours a day mostly during the evening time.I cant say i can > create the glimpse for it happens on its own...And disappears on its > own.Perhaps in the evening i dont have to worry much about my work or maybe > there is some other reason.The "glimpse" has happened to me also during the > office hours but its rare...Sometimes i feel the desire to be in that > glimpse forever too could be an obstacle to be it,maybe.Pls write back your > observations and suggestions.I really need some guidance on this.I have > written down best i could in words. > > Many regards and Pranams, > R

What you are experiencing is due to the intensity of your practice. The barrier-creating chattering mind has stopped, and you have pure perception. If you could dwell in this state all the time, that is one form of samadhi. But that "first time" world is still illusion, experience added onto you.


If you can formalize your meditation and sit in Padmaasana for about 45 minutes in the morning, you should be able to generate it at will as well as pure oneness states. Most probably this will disappear over time. It is the final state for some types of yogis, such as Krishnamurti, etc. Why don't you go with it and see where it takes you?  


This is not classic advaita though. In Advaita you focus attention not on everything, but attempt to concentrate on the subject, the sense of I. Advaita unfortunately is heavy with cognitive elements. Don't do that as yet though. Continue to go as you are doing but add at least one 45 minute session sitting facing a wall with eyes closed or half open. Sit as solidly as possible. Tell me what happens.  


Ed

Hi Ed

I have been in and out of it lately...yesterday the mind flow stopped again.
I don't usually question myself...I just rest in silence without trying to understand
what's happening...but yesterday something became clear.

There is no difference between "waking", "dreaming" or "sleeping"...
they are passing states. Maybe the mind flow is responsible for them but I'm not sure and
I'm not really keen to mentally investigate it...there is just a feeling of being separate from them.

With the "waking" and "dreaming" state space appears...
in this space the feeling of "me" as a separate entity could appear ( if It does I'm aware of it..
I can see it arising and subsiding...even now that It is really weak).
Without a feeling of "me" space prevails...everything is in it...
there are no separate entities...just one space...a passing show that goes by itself...there is no control over it.
But this space is false...it comes and goes...everything in it is false.
The action of writing this email to you is just an appearance in this moment...nothing is really happening.

The funny thing is that during the last months I often thought about how I should conduct my life..
what was right and what was wrong. But It is clear now that there is nobody doing anything...
wrong and right are just concepts...things can appear in different ways but nothing is really happening.
And all this happens (or not happens) just in two states....the "waking" or "dreaming" state...
and when these states subside everything in it disappears.

I feel humbled buy realizing it and feel love but what difference can make these passing feelings
in a false reality? love and hate are worth the same...they are worth nothing.
I don't know what will happen...for the moment the mind is calm and a peaceful feeling prevails.

thank you
M.



This is very good. You glimpse not only are objects abd self in the waking and dream state unreal, but the states themselves are unreal.


Next you have to turn towards understanding who or what you are in the deep sleep and before birth states.


Ed

A 1998 Yoga Journal article about Robert Adams is now online. 

http://books.google.com/books?id=JOoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=ramana+and+robert&source=bl&ots=Xa1vyQerKQ&sig=E-96-_elVfvv4yxzvVlJLfoMmJ0&hl=en&ei=NSTSSsfhAo_-tQOWkLXwCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCkQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=ramana%20and%20robert&f=false

Hi Ed. Can you answer me a few more questions about the I - that doesn't exist. 
 
In my practice, when I am ,being conscious, of being - what is watching (being conscious) and what is the being?
 
You say that beingness is mistaken for a personal I, thus generating a belief in a personal I (this makes perfect sense to me). Is beingness what I am conscious of in my practice? Because thats all I am aware of. From what I see in my practice, there is beingness - thats it! But the witnessing of my beingness is a stumper.
 
The belief in a personal I - the belief being a thought? but where did it come from? if I am not the thinker, then who or what set it up?
 
I noticed also in my practice - that thoughts arise but I never think! I can identify with the thoughts, but Ed I don't see me creating them - which is a eye-opener, or is it my imagination!
 
Also I am perplexed by volition and decision making. If I am sitting in a chair, and a thought arises that I should get up, there is an intention to rise, an exercise of will and then the body is off to do what is needed. Who or what intended and willed the body to move?
 
If I am driving my car, and I come to a stop sign, and I decide to turn left or right - who is making the decision. 
 
I just re-read your first awakening, and it made perfect sense this time. I knew what you were talking about. I know this is all mental, but I believe , at least mentally, that I can understand the idea of no personal I. I think with these directed questions I can at least increase my understanding. 
 
Now if you say that everything, thoughts, volition, decision making and discrimination occur out of nothingness - enacted by a non-locatable, non-peronal doer. Then that means that I am not the thinker or the doer or the one writing this letter - EVERYTHING HAPPENS BY ITSELF, EVERYTHING!
 
Can't wait to get your response on this! 
 
 
Thanks,
 
T.
----------------------------- 

My response:

These questions you ask are exactly the ones Robert asks you to ask.

They cause you to turn your attention towards the subject.

But then you find the subject is not a thing. It does not exist.

Without the subject, there is then no object. Without subject and
object there is no inner or outer.

There is only one consciousness.

This is step one.  Stay there for a while. Just rest in that undivided state.

This certainly is not the final understanding, but you do need to stay
in that place for a while.

Ed

-----------------

Thanks Ed. Your telling me I need these questions to find my own answer? Whatever you tell me will not solve my problem, I must do that myself?
 
Always appreciate your help Ed. Thanks.
 
 
T.

My Response:

Anything I tell you is only words which you will interpret according
to your present understanding and past experiences. My words cannot
take your mind beyond concepts to grasp what you really are. In
effect, your mind and its understanding are what is keeping you from
knowing your "realer" nature. You have to go to the place before
your mind arises, empty mind, silent mind.

That is, search for that awareness before thoughts and even the intent for directed attention arise.

Your mind is the problem. Get to where it has stopped or has not arisen.
Any "answers" posted about your question only makes the mind work
harder to integrate them into what you already know.

It is all about silence, not answers. This is difficult for the busy mind to accept, and difficult for a busy mind to do, but once you learn how it is the most blissful, peaceful practice you can have.

Cat Potty Pranks High Water Bill 1

Hi Ed,

I currently have the idea that I need to stabilize in pure I AMness 24/7 (or at least all waking hours) before I have a shot at realization. Is that true? Is that the most likely scenario?


S.

My response:

The more practice the better. What you are actually doing is reversing an entire life with attention directed outwards, which allows you to grasp the entirety of consciousness as a whole, both inwardly directed and outwardly.

There is no requirement as such, except this is the way it is usually done.

The actual grasping of the entirety will usually happen spontaneously, when you least expect it.

Ed

Ed,




Much is coming together
So it began with seeing that something is aware of thought
How can I be thought when I am seeing these thoughts??
Really contemplating on that for awhile
Then realizing there was a bigger awareness watching the witness to thought
Hmmm?
So then it seemed that what was watching wanted, was waiting, to be noticed
Like two awarenesses
Ok so now it seemed that this smaller witness was now aware of the bigger witness
It seemed strange that now the attention was now on the big watcher instead of the thoughts of which it was accustomed,
like looking backward at myself instead of outer looking
Like the attention was turned in the complete opposite direction
Then seeing something big
Awareness as big
Encompassing the entire world
So, then noticing that what I am is “consciousness”
That word kept coming, over and over
Then ah ha!
And then yes…I am consciousness
And then aaaahhhhhhh!       aaaahhhhhhhhaaaaaa
So, now unfolding even more
This consciousness is one!
Not two
So then realizing as I am in the store tonight, seeing others, that there is only ONE because….the content of what others are aware of is not an identity
It is one consciousness….with thought forms moving through “others”…only appearing to be separate
And seeing quite oddly, and quite humorously, that there is only one
And so also seeing that I am space…
I am not this body as I am the awareness of it
And seeing that there is no self
As I am formless, seeing this, no self
And also seeing that I am love
That this consciousness sees with a “behold” not just void seeing…seeing with a beholding of all as beloved
All meaning all…such as wall, garbage pail, floor, cat, plant, knob
And seeing others as same self
Same
One.
I am mostly aware that I am consciousness…the “no self” slips in and out…haven’t seen that as permanent reality but saw in a flash insight. 
How can I be anything arises in awareness
So finally
Seeing that there is no meaning to this world, life
Not in a bleak way but that all is just appearing as something out of nothing
Out of one
Out of energy, vibration, one source
Seeing that nothing is happening, no meaning, no purpose
Signs along the road, just words, just appearing with no substance
No life
Wondering if all a dream
Feeling that all is dream, having that texture to it
Will investigate this more
The end for now…
Sandra


Sandra,

Your understanding is excellent. Now just stay there as you already
are doing as often as possible.

The silence and understanding will both deepen and eventually the
understanding will be discarded as unnecessary because you will be
free.

Ed

Thanks to readers of this blog, as well as people who have followed this story from all over the world, almost 1,000 people have signed a petition to stop Los Angeles County from killing feral cats. However, the main media still is not carrying the story, and County officials still refuse to talk to members of the Los Angeles animal community.

STOP MASS CAT KILLING IN LOS ANGELES

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stop-mass-cat-killing-in-los-angeles

Target:

Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors

Sponsored by:

Catherine Turley and all those who care about animals

The Los Angeles County Department of Health has contracted with the Carson Animal Shelter to trap cats at various locations across the county.  Hundreds, maybe thousands, of vaccinated, spayed, healthy cats will be killed.  Feral cats are not adoptable. These cats are no more of a threat to human health than the pets that walk through our neighborhoods every day.  This will cost the struggling taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars, based on calculations from previous mass trappings.  Now is not the time to be spending, and killing is not the answer.The Los Angeles County Department of Health has contracted with the Carson Animal Shelter to trap cats at various locations across the county.  Hundreds, maybe thousands, of vaccinated, spayed, healthy cats will be killed.  Feral cats are not adoptable. These cats are no more of a threat to human health than the pets that walk through our neighborhoods every day.  This will cost the struggling taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars, based on calculations from previous mass trappings.  Now is not the time to be spending, and killing is not the answer.

petition overview | letter

signature

goal: 1,000

976
signatures!

Hello Ed,

I'm reading a Robert talk called "Stillness."
I'd like to clarify something if you don't mind. He says that the world is not real, that it does not exist and came out of nothing.

Does it includes only the mental projections that we make on our perceptions,
or it includes the perceptions themselves as well ? I'm a little bit confused by
this statement.


I perceive a lot of objects, colors, people, sounds around me, in a quite unconscious manner, and unless the question "what did you perceive ?" arise, to some extent, if I don't use my memory, there was nothing indeed. Is that the meaning of Robert's statement ?




Ed:


There are no objects without concept. There is no significant difference 
between perception and conception. Even less are there objects that
stand behind perceptions as "reality."

All concepts are part of a verbal mapping of the universe, with an I
thought center around which the conceptual world is constructed. When
you see the I does not exist as an inner entity, the world as an external entity,
as objects, also disappears, and it becomes you, or you it. 


You alone exist; you are the totality of consciousness, with
apparent objects or without, as pure consciousness. Only you exist, nothing 
is external to you.



You have to understand, this is only a conceptual truth and thus too is misleading
until you are able to step outside of concepts.

I have returned from Dresden. I was again there for other 10 days. From one hand they were stressful; from the other hand  being close to death, seeing how my father and mother died has detached me from the apparent life even more than before. My thought goes almost exclusively towards liberation. Since I experienced myself as awareness, my practice has become about like that described by M. Langford (AWA). Moreover, I am trying to practice the Tibetan yogas of dream and sleep. I have two good texts about them by Tenzin Wangyal and Namkhai Norbu Rimpoche. What I don’t like about the Tibetan sadhanas are the preliminary practices. For example, Tenzin Wangyal suggests to get a close relationship with the dakini Salgye Du Dalma (a goddess) who favors and protects the sleep with rigpa (the non-dual consciousness). I am not inspired at all to create a dual relationship with Salgye Du Dalma; I am inspired by rigpa, non-duality, awareness with no support of any object! Therefore, I think if I go on with AWA, I will be able to go beyond the three states of wake, dream and sleep one day. Always accepting and respecting your free choice to answer or not my questions, I would ask how you are about these three states. With love, Stefan

Stefan, None of the 3 states have anything to do with you. Non dual consciousness has nothing to do with you. States of mind have nothing to do with you. Sadness has nothing to do with you. Happiness has nothing to do with you. All that you are talking about are experiences. Experiences have nothing to do with you. You are beyond all that and therefore playing around with these types meditations only take you further from YOU. Only seek YOU. That is, seek the sensation of I Am if you can. Immerse in awareness of I Am. That is the beginning and end of practice. Abiding there eventually brings quietness and happiness too as well as the ending of doubt. Ed

Sir,

Thank you for the info. on your web site. I am not sure if this is meant
to be "Stump the Guru" question, but you are welcome to use it there. As
a practicing Tibetan Buddhist, I have been "steeped" in the Two Wings,
Emptiness and Bodhicitta (Compassion) . So, the concept "Sudden
Enlightenment" is quite new to me. I have been pleasantly surprised by
what I have learned recently in the Zen world of Buddhism. I have two
questions.

1.  I certainly can see the Emptiness side of Zen. What I do not see
(and probably because I do not know where to look) is the Bodhicitta or
Compassion emphasis in Zen teachings. Can you explain to me or direct me
to explanations of how Zen approaches and incorporates Bodhicitta in its
teachings?

2. In Tibetan Buddhism, the Tulku concept is quite interesting and
appears to be quite useful for its potential to identify those, if
nothing else, with high probability of great attainment and therefore
(if so) ability to guide others to Enlightenment (or Bodhisattva-hood).
(Being a "human" process, I am aware that the tulku process has its
problems, too.) In reading many biographies of Zen masters, I find
little to no teachings (yet) on what is occurring to these Masters
during or after transition. I find it impossible to believe that they
have no further interest in helping sentient beings but see no
systematic teaching to that effect. Is there such a thing in Zen
teachings or is that pretty much a "your karma may vary" thing, looking
at it from the point of view of us schmucks still in samsara?

You can edit the above questions as you see fit if you want to use them
in your "Stump the Guru" blog. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

P.

P,

Zen in literature has little to do with compassion.

By Tulku you mean reincarnated teacher?  No such thing in Zen or Advaita.

When you go from one tradition to another you should not expect the
same concepts to exist in both. That would defeat the whole
idea of different traditions. In fact though, most Zen masters I
have known were good guys and some kind. But it is not a universal
character trait.

Ed

Ed,

Yeah, perhaps I am just trying to have my cake (Tibetan Buddhism) and my
icing (Zen Buddhism) and eat them both (without desire, of course). If I
might ask a couple more questions: (If you don't have the time or prefer
not to address the questions below, I still appreciate your website and
writings. I think they are very, very helpful.)

1. So, what is the difference between Zen and Advaita? (I know little
about Advaita at the moment. Read Sri Ramana's bio and books recently.
Very interesting. Found your site from within the Wanderling Awakening
101 site.) What makes Zen a Mahayana thing and Advaita non-Buddhist, as
opposed, say, to Theravada or Hinayana? There are quite a few
similarities in those three traditions.

I believe Zen incorporates the Bodhisattva vows into the Esoteric form
of Zen. I have interest in "leaving samsara permanently", of course, but
have more interest in helping others, such as my family, do so, too. I
realize that we are just rehashing samsara every second, but dropping
everything, including family, to "get 'er done" seems counter-productive
for them.

2. I recently read a note on your web site about "Kundalini experiences"
where you noted that, for more info., one should search your web site. I
have not been able to locate that area. About 5 years ago, when I was
wondering which path to take, I had an amazing vision/dream/experience,
which I can only describe as being "touched" (or nearly overwhelmed) by
a female "goddess" or female Buddha, or dakini (whatever that is) or
something. (No idea who it was, but she was BIG and looked like the
Pre-historic goddess carvings of "The Witches of Eastwick". LOTS of
femininity.) I am still curious as to what happened or whether there was
or is any significance in that event. (Or whether this is just another
game played by my ego.) It certainly energized my practice so to that
extent it has been helpful.

Other things have and do still occur in my life that keep my practice
energized to the extent that the experiences are "new". Practically
every night for the last 30 years, I have had and continue to have
dreams of what I interpret as "other lives" experiences. Often, these
dreams include experiences of dying, of existence in the Bardo, and the
heading for the re-birth. Often, a large or significant GURU figure is
leading the way. Mostly, the dreams are just of me continuously making a
fool of myself. (Bah-ha-ha!) I have only been practicing Buddhism for
the last 5.5 years so these started happening way before I ever knew
anything about Buddhist cosmology. Ah, well. Life is weird.

Thank you for any and all assistance. I am grateful for your website and
writings.

Sincerely,

P

P,

All your questions are about philosophy, experiences, ideas,
comparative religion, etc.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with who you are.

Forget about goddesses, gurus, teachings, compassion, going beyond,
these are all head trips.

Your only concern should be to understand who you are which can only
be found by you through self-investigation.

I attach only one book.

Download it and let it be your guide to self-exploration. Read it
every morning for a half hour. Sit in silence after that and let it
and your pondering sink in.

Slow down your mind and reflect only on your own self-teaching. You
can know all about the subtleties of Buddhist philosophy and be even
further away from self realization than a Wall Street stock
manipulator. All concepts are your enemies.

Ed

Thank you. Very much.

I will do what you suggest. I hope you don't mind if I modify your
instructions a bit. I will do the reading and the sitting,  prior to
work every morning and after work every evening. (Got two kids in
college.) Interesting. Last night and this morning, I read a couple of
chapters of a book about Sri Ramana. (Book link at home). His definition
of Happiness is interesting. wow.

I know that this body is not "Me" or the "I am". I know that this mind
is not Me or the "I am". (Nor these feelings, etc.) I have understood
that for a few years. I have only "known" that for a few months. I know
(the word "know" is all I have. perhaps "feel" or simply understand)
that my universe is "Me" or at least my perception of it is completely
created by this current body and mind, and the karma or my previous (and
current) mental actions. I originally thought this was (or is) the my
holy guru as (I reasoned) how could someone like me provide me with the
universe, body, and mind that I have. 'Course, my Karma "could" be my
part of the deal. I guess I don't know.

Last Spring, during my morning practice, I "saw" or "became one with",
for a very short period of time, "Me". I was a perfect diamond-like
essence. It was every color of light, forever. I was very sorry to see
that recede.

Again, thank you. I look forward to following your advice.


Sincerely,

P

You need no further advice at this time. Just gently begin the practice of gaining acquaintance with yourself as just consciousness, awareness.

You are doing well.

These are good experiences, but remember being one with I Am is only
an experience, and you are not that; you are the knower of the experience.

Ed

Questions sent to me by a reader with my answers. Actually, these are exactly the right questions rather than dwelling on special experiences, progress, or "What is the state like?"

1. Are you happier now than before the awakening? YES, YES, YES! This is the only real criteria of whether the whole search was worth it.  


2. Do you wish sometimes that you are in the stage of non-awakened people? Absolutely not. Too much noise, lack of clarity and a degree of barbarism.  


3. Do you find life worth living? I make do. It no longer matters to me one way or the other. Life really has nothing to do with ME.  


4. What motivates you to do things - if anything? A strong sense of justice and compassion. Feeling the suffering of others and animals.

5. Is there love in your world? Do you love life or people or yourself? I love every living thing and want to protect every living thing from suffering.

HELP STOP CAT KILLING!

A rogue county agency, LA County Vector Control, is rounding up and killing feral and stray cats as a defense against “terrorist threats” and wildly unproven theories of threats to humans health. Next they will move on to cities, as in the past with Santa Monica.

An email received by me: The L. A. County Public Health, spearheaded by Joe Ramirez, Environmental Health Specialist,  phone (626) 430-5468, has contracted the L. A. County Carson Animal Shelter to trap and euthanize all feral and stray cats within the park area and wherever there is ‘human interaction’.  I spoke with him on two occasions trying to negotiate allowing rescue groups to handle a relocation and adoption effort.  

But he is against relocation of any sort unless in a cat sanctuary or adoption.  He feels that feral/stray cats have become a National Security problem because of the ‘potential’ of spreading deadly diseases, plagues, and biohazards.  His mission is to go from park to park or wherever there are strays and ferals and euthanize them. He told me that Carson said they would euthanize the cats right away. It is a death sentence for all the feral and stray cats in L.A. County and then maybe elsewhere.

This is me, Ed Muzika: Joe Ramirez and his boss Gail Van Gordon are kill crazy and feel they are on a mission from God to cleanse the world or urban wildlife and feral cats when there is, in their minds, even the slightest potential for disease spread to humans. Ramirez bragged to me that the reason there has been no human plague in Los Angeles County is because they so thoroughly monitor and kill ground squirrels throughout the County. They don't even pretend to present reasonable arguments to support the medical/scientific necessity of their killing.

Ramirez told me in the past he wanted to kill feral cats because they can spread pneumonic vs. bubonic plague. Vector Control has been looking for an excuse to kill ferals for years, and now their excuse is terrorism! Over the year Ramirez has spoken to any number of groups about the need to trap and destroy cats. There most recent “reason” to trap is suspicion of Typhoid in the cats. Every month Ramirez has a different excuse or reason to trap and kill cats throughout the County.

Trapping has already begun at Del Aire Park and Imperial School in Hawthorne where a notice has been posted, that cats will be trapped and taken to the Carson shelter where they will be “adopted” out.  Next in line for trapping is PECK PARK and THE HARBOR UCLA MEDICAL CENTER.  That County will adopt them is a complete lie. Feral cats are not adoptable. The County kills them after a 3 day hold. In fact, LA County has a kill rate of almost 90% for all cats impounded, whether feral, tame or kittens.

Phone Numbers of People to Call:

MOST IMPORTANT: Jonathan Fielding: Head of County Health,

jfielding@ladhs.org, jfieldin@ucla.edu; Phone: County Health: Direct Line-(213) 240-8117; UCLA: (310) 206-1141

Joe Ramirez, (626) 430-5468—In Charge of Cat Killing

Ramirez’s Boss:  Gail Vangordon:  gvangordon@ladhs.org

            Phone (626) 430-5450. She considers scientific evidence from outsiders laughable.

MOST IMPORTANT: The Supervisors: These are the decision makers:

Gloria Molina: Phone (213) 974-4111

 

Zev Yaroslavsky: Phone (213) 974-3333 

Michael Antonovich: Phone: (213) 974-5555

Mark Ridley-Thomas: Phone (213) 974-2222

Don Knabe: Phone: 213-974-4444

Christian Fundamentalism is only technically part of a religious movement. Actually it is a deep pathology, and as such should be and is exposed. This is far from Robert and Advaita, but worth reading.

http://frank-schaeffer.blogspot.com/

http://www.frankschaeffer.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0qHnWsP5k

Questions from a reader:

1. Does the feeling that is called the feeling of I-am-ness always include a sense of separate selfhood? There seems to be an intimate sense or feeling of presence (or being) that does not however present itself in the shape of an I. I'm not talking about anything advanced-about transcending the "I" or reaching the ultimate subject or anything. I am talking about an immediate, pre-reflective feeling of being. When I reflect on this feeling I can note that it is graspable as mine but the lived experience is not one in which the being of which I am aware is grasped as mine. Now I think there is such a feeling. Does it count as an instance of the feeling of I-am-ness? One reason for thinking that it should count is that the beingness of which I am aware seems (on reflection) to be "mine" One reason for thinking it should not count is that the feeling does not include a pronounced consciousness of separateness. What do you think?


2. You say of Michael Langford's "awareness watching awareness" that it is shikantasa not vichara. Okay, I agree that what he is talking about is shikantasa. But If the self = awareness, why isn't awareness watching awareness a kind of self-awareness, and hence a form of self-inquiry? Perhaps your point is that bare awareness of awareness does not contain the thought "I". That would explain, why on your view, shikantasa's no good for "killing the self." Is this how you are conceiving of awareness watching awareness?

3. One might conclude from (2) that the I-am-feeling requires something like the word 'I'. But Nisargadatta makes a big deal of the wordless I am. His suggestion seems to be that this I am is somehow more "primordial" than the I am that takes the form of mentally voicing the words "I ... am." Is the wordless "I am" different from the wordless "presence" that is not yet the I-am I was talking about in (1)?

4. I take it that: the feeling I am ? the felt experience of the lived body. A potentially confusing thing here is that the felt experience of the body seems to be an experience of being and indeed to disclose my being (= my being as embodied). This might be a reason for describing the felt experience of the body as a form of I-am-ness. Perhaps the sense of my being as embodied is illusory (since the real I is not embodied), but the description seem phenomenologically accurate. There is a lived awareness of embodiment-a kind of bodily consciousness-is there not? Doesn't this consciousness come with a sense of "mineness"? You say: "[m]ost 'I am', subjective first person "feelings" will actually be associated with some form of body identification" - under the rubric of "false selves [that] will deceive all but most diligent." This suggests you think that there is a bodily I am that is distinct from the Advaita-preferred, distinct from the I-am-the-body-idea, I am. Is this your view?

Follow up thought: I had thought of mindfulness of the body (from Zen) as a "good" thing. I suppose that mindfulness of the body ? I-am-body-idea. You can be mindful of the body without identifying with it, can't you? Yet Nisargadatta advocates thinking constantly that I am not the body. This seems contrary to the spirit of cultivating mindfulness of embodiment. Does Advaita say that mindfulness of the body is incompatible with the desired I - consciousness?

5. I can become aware of that which asks Who am I? ("personal" report). Is this "awareness of the witness"? There are places where Nisargadatta associates awareness of the witness with I-am-ness. But this sense (of I-am-ness) seems to be very different from the sense of I-am-ness associated with wanting to be. It doesn't seem connected with a wish to continue existing. It doesn't seem to involve a sense of a separate identity. It may involve distinctness from what is witnessed, but there is no sense of difference from others. Other people don't seem to figure in this form of I-consciousness at all. Is there a witness I am that is different from a personal I am?

All this stuff is tremendously difficult to describe. So I'm not sure that I'm getting the phenomenology accurately. I may be making things more complicated than they need be (occupational hazard). But I've given it my best shot.

Thanks much.

---------------

My Reply:

The mind is quite self-disabling isn't it?

Most people avoid real self-inquiry by arguing about terms and
concepts used by one teacher versus another and get lost into trying to
discover how ultimately they agree, or that one guru was full of
crap while th other is the real thing.

Here you are using discrimination to effectively halt practice by
focusing on imaginary distinctions in experience.

It doesn't matter what Nisargadatta said or Ramana said about
practice. They really only, in the end, wanted an ending to concepts
by focusing on practice. But you focus on practice and find the conceptual
imaginary distinctions others find in the theories.

First principal:

All experiences are illusion including the sense of I, the word I, the
concept I, the sense of amness, and the waking and dreaming

experiences as a whole.

Self inquiry is not to find which aspect of the experience is real, or
belongs to Nisargadatta, but to see it is all unreal.

Just watch the I Am sense, sometimes associated with the body,
sometimes not. It changes with observation.

Just listen to Nisargadatta's pointers, but don't obsess over apparent
contradictions.

You want ultimately to submerge in consciousness only in order to find out
consciousness is as much illusion as concept.

Nisragdatta had his experiences which he formulated into an ideology,
which he then asks everyone to abandon. Ditto Ramana and Robert. A lot of what they say is just entertainment. The essence is practice.

Don't depend on them. You invesitigate yourself by inner observation
in the best way you know how to find your core.

Don't be distracted by techniques or experiences. They are for you to
borrow, improve upon or ignore.

Just grasp your sense of self however or whereever you find it and
hang on, or sit doing absolutely nothing, and various samadhi's will
come to you.

As Seung Sahn said over and over, you must become completely stupid.
Real hard advice for people used to using their minds. Robert spent 90% of

Satsang providing emotional entertainment, but always ended in talking about self-inquiry's visisitudes, and in the end, silence when all is empty.

You know emptiness from Zazen, but here there is the emptiness as the personal self is lost. That loss is different and more "personal" as you feel it to be YOUR emptiness rather than just a state of emptiness, as in Samadhi, that comes and goes.

As Robert said, "You become totally useless." That is why I like his "Good for Nothing Man" talk best.

It is somewhere on the itisnotreal website and ceratinly in his Collected Works.

My new kitten. She was rescued from a drainage ditch sceduled to be cemented over soon. Still trying to get her sister, a gorgeous Calico. She is six weeks 3 days old.

Slideshow below:

http://picasaweb.google.com/edwardmuzika/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=Gv1sRgCOyFyPXAkbjEyAE#slideshow/5379600491093539330

Letter:

Ed one more question. Who is it , first thing in the morning, that would try to catch the I as it rises from the self to the brain? What chases and what runs? There was one instance (or maybe 2), very clear, where I became conscious in this gap between sleep and waking up. I was aware of being, but I did not know who I was - just that I was. Also, I knew, without thinking, that I would know who I was when something reached my brain and activated the memories. Was this imagination? Is this trying to catch the I - just a way of saying - try to become conscious before you hit the brain, like I experienced? For there are not 2 I's One to run and One to chase. Terminalogy is such a trap to understanding.

My Response:

There is no I. Never was an I. I is a concept, a fiction. Same too with Self. These are just all words and concepts pointing to an imaginary existence. I appears to exist because you have the concept that there is an independent subject I associated with the word 'I'. When you see there is no objective you as a separate person that the word and concept I points too, then you see there is no objective external world either. All is you, the totality of consciousness. However, then you will begin to realize that consciousness is quite variable, yet you don't feel variable. You feel independent, free, the ultimate subject to whom waking, dream and sleep come as a show that is not you. You are the unmanifest subject, the noumena. Actually you are the world-show too, but it emmanates from your noumenal, absolute emptiness, and is variable while your true nature is not. So any questions about various I's searching for other I's and other imaginary splits are still the same--all this is just concept. You as an I do not exist. You as the totality that mistaken creates a multiplicity, fundamentally do not exist in existence, because you count existence as that which is perceived rather than that which perceives. It will become clear. Just keep going as you are. You are doing fine. Ed

My True Guru!

As Robert used to say over and over, "Everyone wants to get into the act!"

Letter:

"I haven't become aware of my "True Nature" (whatever that is) although I did have a strange experience once but since it involved a feeling of knowing and understanding all within the fake world I don't know what it was. Yet there is this innate sense that it is true that there is no me. I'm currently at the state where I just see my mind as a freaking nuisance and I feel like I don't know anything anymore.

"I can't even explain why it's so important to me- but I have to know because until then, nothing else matters. I've been dealing with this feeling that things weren't what they seemed and that I didn't belong for as long as I can remember."

"I don't know many authors or titles or the difference > between this school of thought or that one and frankly, I don't think > it matters within the context of trying to wake up."

Ed:

Actually, it matters most of all because it is all bullshit. The only
thing to pay attention to are instructions on how to practice
self-inquiry. That is the core of the two non-Robert texts I sent you:
practice and self-inquiry.

Here is the rub. Spiritual people are looking for something. They know
something is wrong with the world but they don't know what. They
search for something, but they don't know what. So they listen to all
the gurus with all the different philosophies and get totally lost.
The only way you don't get lost is exploring yourself. Hopefully you
get to the point where self-exploration is your own way rather than
trying to recreate the explorations Ramana or Nisargadatta did.

The last 2 chapters of the Path of Ramana Part I are two of the best
on self inquiry as is Pradeep.

Robert is stillness speaking to you through the modifications produced
by your mind and should be considered entertainment though you can
have wonderful temporary experiences as a result. "The Way" is marked by
these experiences. These are what keep people going. But, in the end,
the experiences are not important. The real work is being accomplished

through the silence accomplished through going within, and to an extent, Robert's words, or, as in my case, through listening to sacred music. Both instill stillness, silence.

Eventually you get to a place where you are yourself as You after all the spiritual reading and practices are done. By that time you are fully baked and utterly useless to anyone or anything
except your cats, whom you serve. But, you will be happy and complete.

A Letter: Nisargadatta was my main teaching 8 or 9 years ago and his books were my bibles. And so, I've been doing the I Am meditation since that time. I usually start in the head space on the in breath for "I". Then hold it there and on the out breath allow rest in the "Am"...I also just do shikantaza and focus more in the belly center. Towards the end of my meditations, I will place my hands on the heart and do the "I AM" there and pray for grace/surrender. I typically sit in the morning for 1/2 hour and then in the evening for another 1/2 hour. Sometimes, on my days off, i'll step it up and do a modified sesshin...and sit most of the day... 2-3 years ago, I felt i needed a teacher. Even though i could rest as non conceptual awareness, I was depressed and had a distaste for the world and no motivation to do anything...it became hard to be around family/friends because i felt so divorced from how they saw the world...so, i went to a zen monastery thinking someone would know how to live out this no-self state that i had become stuck in...it was there during a weeklong sesshin that i saw that everything i took myself to be was simply imagination...this quite simply, blew my mind and it came even harder to know how to be in the world after i left the monastery...i then started a contemplative bed and breakfast with my girlfriend focusing on yoga/meditation....this didn't bring in enough $$, so I ended up getting a job working with Alzheimer patients doing therapeutic recreation...this has been a god send and i can do the job with my big toe...but, when i'm not working, i usually just kind of lay around lately... still, i keep reading what other teachers have read or listen to youtube stuff...it's like, I don't know what else to do...i enjoy just listening to satsangs, but it seems like enough is enough and i feel like maybe i'm still depressed, as there's no motivation to do things...i can have thoughts of, for example, getting a master's degree in counseling, but then, it's like, why follow the imaginations of the mind anymore...i function in my job quite well and don't discuss my spiritual process with anyone there...i am now single and live quietly in a cabin in rural connecticut...i will go see family and friends in ohio, but i can only do quick visits for a day or two...after that, i need to be on my way...i still talk with my old girlfriend, who i could share this process with...i can't imagine being with someone who i couldn't discuss it with...or maybe it would be better....anyway, i'm living a hermit's life and to a degree it suits me, but as i said, things just feel incomplete... i know this is just my mind rambling, and these questions don't arise when i do the "I AM", but nonetheless, this is what is arising...hope this helps....thanks and take care....P

P, You are 99% done. You are doing fine. The sense of incompleteness itself is the last barrier. It is not you. It is not real. Just keep going. Love, Ed Imagine 99% cooked. That is VERY, VERY good.